Obama's first failed appointment

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Redux

I would describe it more as a philosophical difference than an argument of futility.

Doesn't one necessitate the other?

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

The only fair system is a graduated system, where taxes increase as income increases.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

The only fair system is where everyone pays the same and additionally there should be a tax on all purchases.

There is no such thing as a "fair" system because of how subjective fair is.

Maybe the government should just play the father figure by taking everyone's money away then yell "Happy now, now its fair". It worked for North Korea...you don't hear any of them complaining about the tax setup.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Maybe the government should just play the father figure by taking everyone's money away then yell "Happy now, now its fair".

Some think thats where we are headed anyway :tinfoil

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

There is no such thing as a "fair" system because of how subjective fair is.

True.

But the reality is there has never been much support for a flat tax.

Kemp made it a core component of his campaign when he ran for Pres in '88; as did Forbes in '00 and Huckabee last year....with little success.

Any Congressional proposal for a flat tax over the last 20+ years has died in committee, regardless of the party in power.

A poll ( ) I saw this morning:

Almost three-quarters of Americans think it is a good idea to raise taxes on people making more than $250,000 per year, according to the latest CBS News/New York Times poll.

In fact, two-thirds of Americans think the tax code should be changed so that middle-class Americans pay less than they do now, while "upper income" people pay more.

Poll: 74 Percent Support Higher Taxes On The Rich

Whether a flat tax is "fair" or not or has merits or not, the political reality is that while most Americans would like to see tax simplification, what a flat tax doesnt have is very much public support.

[lookout123]

Could that be because of all the bullshit about damaging the middle class that is thrown upon it? I remember when I worked in the UAW plant the "information pieces" that were distributed to let all the employees know how horrible some proposals were so it was a good thing a specific political party existed to take care of people "like us".

Originally Posted by lookout123

Could that be because of all the bullshit about damaging the middle class that is thrown upon it? I remember when I worked in the UAW plant the "information pieces" that were distributed to let all the employees know how horrible some proposals were so it was a good thing a specific political party existed to take care of people "like us".

Sure, it could be.

Or it could be that many don't buy into the fuzzy math.

In any case, I dont think the "bullshit" claim would explain the lack of support for a flat tax over the last 80+ years.

In the end, it could be that many believe that as one's income increases, one should contribute a greater proportion of that income to the public expense.

[classicman]

Almost three-quarters of Americans think it is a good idea to raise taxes on OTHER people. Two-thirds of Americans think that they should pay less than they do now, while "SOMEONE ELSE" pays more.

I reworded that poll for ya. Perhaps thats clearer. That might be the reason - just saying.

Originally Posted by classicman

I reworded that poll for ya. Perhaps thats clearer. That might be the reason - just saying.

Nah...I think its much more conspiratorial.....dead capitalists and communists and dead Republican presidents channeling their thoughts during the polling.

Perhaps Adam Smith channelling from Wealth of Nations - It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion

Or Karl Marx from Das Kapital

Or Teddy Roosevelt from a speech on New Nationalism - that there was a "general right of the community to regulate" the earning of income and use of private property "to whatever degree the public welfare may require it."

Or Ronald Reagan when he signed his major tax reform legislation, including the redistribution of wealth through the expansion of the earned income tax credit.

[classicman]

And they said you didn't have a sense of humor. bwahahahaha

[lookout123]

pointing out that a bunch of politicians didn't have a problem with wealth redistribution isn't a great argument. politicians of all persuasions have the retention of power as their primary goal and selling animosity towards the other guy always plays in Peoria.

Originally Posted by lookout123

pointing out that a bunch of politicians didn't have a problem with wealth redistribution isn't a great argument. politicians of all persuasions have the retention of power as their primary goal and selling animosity towards the other guy always plays in Peoria.

And yet the flat tax has never played well in Peoria either as far as I know...or Crappo, MD or Boring, OR or Normal, IL or even Santa Claus, IN.

The support for a flat tax is and has always been flat, never reaching the level of widespread support anywhere....no other way to put it.

Perhaps that will change now with the new celebrity spokesman.........Joe the Plumber!

http://irsvote.com/

Now there is a credible person who I want speaking for me!

You must pay $.99 to express your support for his fair tax.....LOL....that seems fair!

[lookout123]

Eh, maybe he's looking for a job as a lobbiest.

[Happy Monkey]

Will he lobby for whichever side texts him the most money?

[TGRR]

Joe the who? Oh, yeah...the loser that stuck his nose in to politics and then cried when he got burned.

If ya can't handle the heat, stay the fuck out of the kitchen.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by lookout123

Eh, maybe he's looking for a job as a lobbiest.