Impeding changes to our Health Care system

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by jinx

Ron Paul doesn't want his tax money to pay for abortions.

Or anything else, really. What's new?

Money is fungible, and far more people support access to abortions than actually have them, so people can feel free to decide that any money going to abortions wasn't "theirs".

[spudcon]

Originally Posted by so people can feel free to decide that any money going to [I

death camps for Jews[/i] wasn't "theirs".

I think Nazis used that argument, and the world agreed for years.

[Happy Monkey]

More people will be paying in, plus the taxes, for a start.

Of course the costs don't go away (unless access to health care earlier in life helps with preventive care). And to the extent that they increase under the new system, it would be instead of the current industry's preference for letting them die, and as such is a major part of the purpose of reform.

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

More people will be paying in, plus the taxes, for a start.

Of course the costs don't go away (unless access to health care earlier in life helps with preventive care). And to the extent that they increase under the new system, it would be instead of the current industry's preference for letting them die, and as such is a major part of the purpose of reform.

And as in most industries, wth greater competition comes a likelihood of lowering costs and often greater innovation.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Redux

And as in most industries, wth greater competition comes a likelihood of lowering costs and often greater innovation.

If a private insurance company can compete with the public option, then it will be more efficient. If not, it was draining money from the system without providing added value, and we're the better for losing it.

If there are gaps in the public option, private insurance will be happy to fill them, as in England.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

More people will be paying in, plus the taxes, for a start.

Of course the costs don't go away (unless access to health care earlier in life helps with preventive care). And to the extent that they increase under the new system, it would be instead of the current industry's preference for letting them die, and as such is a major part of the purpose of reform.

Do you really think it is going to change? All you are doing is exchanging one insurance provider for another under different rules. Rationing care is a part of every program of insurance, whether it is privately run or publically run.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Do you really think it is going to change? All you are doing is exchanging one insurance provider for another under different rules. Rationing care is a part of every program of insurance, whether it is privately run or publically run.

I want it to be a rule that denying care doesn't profit anyone, and any rationing is based on necessity and triage. A public plan is closer to that ideal than the current system.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

I want it to be a rule that denying care doesn't profit anyone, and any rationing is based on necessity and triage. A public plan is closer to that ideal than the current system.

A public plan is still going to be administered by an insurance company. Your care will still be rationed.

Under the current patchwork of state regulations, insurance companies profits are based, in part, on a flat rate percentage of premiums. If they get 15 percent return on premiums, there is no incentive to lower those premiums, in fact, the reversal is true....increase profits by raising premiums.

Because of the way health insurance works, insurers haven't been paying much of a penalty for failing to contain costs. Insurers typically keep around 15 to 25 percent of the premiums they collect to cover administrative and marketing costs, plus profit (the exact percentage varies according to state regulations, if any). The rest goes to pay for health care for customers.

http://www.consumerreports.org/healt...h_profit_1.htm

[TheMercenary]

The elimination of a graduated premium, as contained in the House version, means that you cannot be charged more if you have a preexisting condition. Most say, GREAT! But in reality the costs will have to be the same across the board for everyone's premiums. Eventually even private insurance will have to do this. So what happens is they guy who is unhealthy gets to have his premium reduced, the guy who is healthy has his premium go up. Numerous organizations are attempting to figure out what that number is but no one knows for sure. One thing is for sure and that is that it will go up every year. Remember you will be mandated to buy insurance, so if you actually are lucky enough to make money were you get little to no help from the government, where does that money come from? Your pay. Current estimates are between 4 and 10% of your income. Most employer sponsored plans pay between 50-80% of your health insurance and you pay the rest. No one knows what is going to really happen with private insurance, but one thing is sure that in the House version they will pretty much have to offer what the public plan is offering 5 years out.

The bill as fashioned is to cover the under and uninsured. The problem is that it is not fashioned to cover all the people from businesses that may eventually dump their private insurance and tell people to get it on the public plan with employers paying the estimated 8% penalty as a cheaper option. Then costs for the public plan may soar out of control. There is no language in the bill which adresses reimbursement. So if the costs for the new plan goes up, and they cut all reimbursement to a Medicare/Medicaid rate many health care providers will go out of business. Malpractice rates continue to climb every year. Malpractice for an OB doc is between 80 and 120,000 dollars a year. If you run an office there is a lot of overhead. No one could survive the market if all rates were reduced to M/M standards. There are a lot of unanswered questions and left unanswered will lead to unintended consequences.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

So what happens is they guy who is unhealthy gets to have his premium reduced, the guy who is healthy has his premium go up.

Isn't that the whole point of insurance? You spread the costs of the sick people around to everyone. The advantage for the healthy person is that they know that if they get sick, there will be someone there to catch them when they fall.

I know I've paid a hell of a lot more into the system than I've gotten out of it. The only reason I have insurance is so that if I get sick, I don't lose my house.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by glatt

Isn't that the whole point of insurance? You spread the costs of the sick people around to everyone. The advantage for the healthy person is that they know that if they get sick, there will be someone there to catch them when they fall.

I know I've paid a hell of a lot more into the system than I've gotten out of it. The only reason I have insurance is so that if I get sick, I don't lose my house.

It is and I agree. But when the system does not allow for those with unhealthy habits or preexisting disease your heathly person/family premium will rise to cover the decrease in the other persons. It is the only way it will work. Right or wrong.

[Happy Monkey]

Administered. They'll be paid to run it; they won't get to keep any health budget they don't spend.

Closer to the ideal. Not ideal.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Administered. They'll be paid to run it; they won't get to keep any health budget they don't spend.

Closer to the ideal. Not ideal.

Think about it. You think that a private insurance company is going to do this for little to no income and reimbursement? They are going to make millions.

But people who will not have to pay for it really could care less, as long as they get their care it matters not to most who or how much the government pays them.

[Happy Monkey]

Whatever their income is, I don't want it to be increased if they deny coverage.