The Politics of a Health Crisis

[BigV]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Oh, this sort of thing: "On my authority as Speaker, Donald Trump is NOT ALLOWED a win, even in medicine, even if he took a medicine prophylactically, especially since it's with apparent success." Puh-leeeze. Let's have signs of intelligent life in the House; is that somehow too much to ask? I'm tired of the bigotry there.

cite please.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by BigV

cite please.

Well -- is it some conspiracy? -- or is it a culture, and a norm for said culture? Who needs a conspiracy when he has a culture? Are any of those candidates actually stating a reason to vote for them, and their programs? I can't hear them.

Mark Levin has made considerable public comment on the Democrats' prejudiced behavior toward Donald John Trump. It is strictly prejudiced to conduct an impeachment where it's "impeachment first, offense later" -- a miscarriage of injustice. Justice, as a rule, runs the other way, offense first, and winning an election against the Mistress of Corruption is no actionable offense. Credit for frequent competent action is refused -- the Democrats are treating Trump the way they treated niggers, what with the lynchings and other fun times -- Democrat show all the way. They *do* seem to have trouble getting Trump throttled.

Two television networks are establishing a reputation for aiding and abetting the Democrats' anti-libertarian campaign. Antilibertarian campaigning is toxic, antieconomic, and slavemongering.

You know, I didn't vote for Trump the first time. Then he started implementing all these libertarian-style policies. Here comes the second.

[sexobon]

This looks like a job for The Doctor, with assistance from Bicycle Repairman, and they may even have to recall Harry and Meghan to Royal duty. Social media news can be a formidable foe:

Just 30% of Brits say they would definitely get a coronavirus vaccine, with scientists blaming anti-vaxxer conspiracy theories and mistrust in government

... Less than a third of British people say they would definitely get a coronavirus vaccine, with scientists warning that the UK government and social media companies must fight misinformation for a vaccine to be widely accepted.

New research by pollsters Ipsos Mori and Kings College London university found that 30% of people in the UK said they were certain to get a vaccine for COVID-19 if it became available.

23% said they were very likely and 20% said they were fairly likely.

However, 16% of respondents said they were either unlikely to get a vaccine or definitely wouldn't. ...

... Scientists behind the research said there was a clear link between opposition to a vaccine and social media as a source of news. 27% of respondents who said they got their news from Whatsapp said they would be unlikely to get the virus. ...

... While one in six in the UK say they are unlikely to, or definitely won't, get a potential vaccine, this rises to around a third or more among certain groups, with a clear link to belief in conspiracy theories and mistrust of government, authority and science. ...

[Urbane Guerrilla]

No mere superstition, that: "With this hallucination I thee wed, dearest Falsehood."

In California, we are now blessed with a color coded four-tier system superseding the California county watch list. Generated by one-party Sacramento and the Democrat Governor.

We are being held back. California's economy still isn't firmly recovering. Veritable convoys of U-Hauls are seen on the highways, heading out of state, to some location not run by Democrats.

[BigV]

House GOP leader says he trusts Trump over CDC director on vaccine timing

House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) said he trusts President Trump's comments on a timeline for the release of a coronavirus vaccine over Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) Director Robert Redfield.

"We're going to have a safe and effective vaccine this year, and listen to the preparation of what we've been able to do with Operation Warp Speed, to be able to deliver it. When that time comes, if I just take the words of the CDC and the president, the president's right," McCarthy said during a press briefing on Thursday.

"I think one of those two individuals had more information than the other, and that was the president," he added.

Trump at a Wednesday evening press briefing said Redfield was incorrect when he said a vaccine for COVID-19 would likely not be available until "the second or third quarter of 2021," remarks the CDC director made in testimony to Congress.



Redfield's estimate tracks with the outlines provided by other health experts, but Trump said a vaccine could be widely available by this fall. Democratic nominee Joe Biden on Wednesday said Trump lacked credibility in terms of the timing of a vaccine because Trump appears to want one out speedily to help with his reelection. The Trump campaign has criticized Biden for fearmongering.

McCarthy said that after speaking with other experts including Dr. Moncef Slaoui, the chief scientific adviser to the Trump administration's vaccine development program, and pharmaceutical companies developing COVID-19 vaccines, he believes Trump's timeline is more accurate.

He told reporters that Redfield likely "needs to be updated" on the latest information.

Trump was recently quoted saying "You've really drunk the Kool Aid, haven't you?" in a different context, but it sure looks like there's PLENTY of Kool Aid to go around.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Trump's right it will be ready this year...

it just won't be tested properly, and probably not at all.
But after the first few million people we'll know if it works and if it's safe.

Wait a minute, Dr. Moncef Slaoui heading Trumps brain trust?
That sounds like an immigrant's name, but no, Trump hates them.
Hmm, "Moroccan-born Belgian-American", I wonder if Trump knows?

[Undertoad]

Testing is ongoing and has a fixed schedule based on science and rules that can't be circumvented

don't go antivax to own dear leader, blood will be on your hands

[xoxoxoBruce]

Dear Leader has already touted unproven and in fact dangerous injections so Dear Leader is not to be trusted. We'll have a vaccine when the scientist-doctors and the CDC/WHO say we have a vaccine.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Testing is ongoing and has a fixed schedule based on science and rules that can't be circumvented

don't go antivax to own dear leader, blood will be on your hands

Trump already has blood on his hands.

His blithe disregard for science, rules, really anything that doesn't appear to immediately advance his own interests led him to avoid making choices and taking actions that would have saved many thousands of lives. His most used and most effective tool is his mouth. Both the power of the bully pulpit and his native, epic talent for talking and talking and talking. He used that tool, his words, to ill effect, repeatedly and vigorously, flying in the face of science, flouting rules, and basically talking shit (so much shit) and people died as a result.

Trump's main effort is to control the narrative. He wants those who hear him to believe him, and consider no other sources of information. This crisis has been his kryptonite because the virus is immune to his talk. It can't be intimidated or shouted down or gaslighted. This put Trump at an unexpected and serious disadvantage. His super tool was and is ineffective.

Remember when he gave instructions that hospitals around the country were to stop sending their epidemiological information to the CDC and were told to send it to the white house office instead? Remember when his political appointee was asserting editorial control over the "scientific" reports from the CDC? These are the efforts to control the narrative, irrespective of the facts.

This is the naked politicization of the health crisis.

He tried and failed to spin it away. Trump's hands are covered with blood.

[Undertoad]

then don't claim "it just won't be tested properly or not at all"

[Clodfobble]

His implication was if it is ready before the end of 2020 (as Trump has claimed it will be) then by definition it won't have been properly tested, according to the rules you claim can't be circumvented (though in actuality they can, it just takes one willing and/or blackmailed pharmaceutical CEO.)

You can believe Trump is talking out of his ass and it won't be released this year, and maybe you're right, but the testing protocols you believe in dictate that a properly-tested vaccine can't be released this year.

[Undertoad]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

(though in actuality they can, it just takes one willing and/or blackmailed pharmaceutical CEO.)

really? conspiracy theory before the fact?

You can believe Trump is talking out of his ass and it won't be released this year, and maybe you're right, but the testing protocols you believe in dictate that a properly-tested vaccine can't be released this year.

NY Times COVID vaccine tracker

40 vaccines are in human clinical trials. Nine are in Phase 3. (Three of those are Chinese companies, so we might rule them out? But they are being tested in other countries. All three Chinese vaccines are approved for limited human use.)

Three vaccines not from Chinese companies are nearly ready. They won't be widely available by the end of 2020 because manufacturing, but one or two may well be released. Pfizer figures their studies will be complete next month.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

NY Times COVID vaccine tracker

40 vaccines are in human clinical trials. Nine are in Phase 3. (Three of those are Chinese companies, so we might rule them out? But they are being tested in other countries. All three Chinese vaccines are approved for limited human use.)

Three vaccines not from Chinese companies are nearly ready. They won't be widely available by the end of 2020 because manufacturing, but one or two may well be released. Pfizer figures their studies will be complete next month.

Pfizer can claim their Phase III testing is "complete" and submit for approval whenever they want. And the FDA can decide to approve it for release if they want. But historically, Phase III has always been expected by the FDA to take a bare minimum of 1 year. Those are the rules that supposedly can't be circumvented, but if a vaccine passes out of Phase III in less than 1 year, then they have indeed been circumvented.

[BigV]

Clodfobble, you're precisely correct. Thank you for the concise clarification.

[sexobon]

So (needle pulling thread), he did a good job of thinning the herd when there weren't enough resources to go around. Some Presidents send people off to war while others let nature take its toll. Presidents get paid to do that balancing act. I've never been a fan of the war option: it takes away the young and able. Letting the old and weak fall by the wayside, knowing that you can't make all of the people happy all of the time, would seem to be in the best interest of future generations. Those who make it so are our unsung heroes.



Bwahahaha!