Global warming? - Page 22

TheMercenary · 10-20-2009, 10:27 AM

Still BS. You made a broad sweeping statement and it is false. If you want to narrow it down to those two organizations as your example I agree with you.

10-20-2009, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Still BS. You made a broad sweeping statement and it is false. If you want to narrow it down to those two organizations as your example I agree with you.

I could add the CATO Institute, the Heartland Institute (it should be called the Exxon Institute), the Hoover Institute....In fact, I cant name one libertarian-type organization that supports any government role; there may be a few more accepting conservative organizations, but I dont know of any off the top of my head. Perhaps you do.

But thank you for agreeing about AEI and CEI.

TheMercenary · 10-20-2009, 10:36 AM

Institutes generally don't represent industry. You can find a mirid of opinions from their subject matter experts but I am certain we could find some pretty inflamatory statements from any organization you didn't agree with.

SamIam · 10-20-2009, 11:40 AM

This just in:

Quote:

You would have to go back at least 15 million years to find carbon dioxide levels on Earth as high as they are today, a UCLA scientist and colleagues report Oct. 8 in the online edition of the journal Science.

"The last time carbon dioxide levels were apparently as high as they are today — and were sustained at those levels — global temperatures were 5 to 10 degrees Fahrenheit higher than they are today, the sea level was approximately 75 to 120 feet higher than today, there was no permanent sea ice cap in the Arctic and very little ice on Antarctica and Greenland," said the paper's lead author, Aradhna Tripati, a UCLA assistant professor in the department of Earth and space sciences and the department of atmospheric and oceanic sciences.

"Carbon dioxide is a potent greenhouse gas, and geological observations that we now have for the last 20 million years lend strong support to the idea that carbon dioxide is an important agent for driving climate change throughout Earth's history," she said.

http://www.climate.ucla.edu/news/art...?parentid=4676

The research data continues to build up, it is good science, carefully peer reviewed, and it makes absolute sense to anybody who cares to read it. I feel like I am trying to discuss evolution with a fundamentalist. Its not global warming, its intelligent design.

xoxoxoBruce · 10-20-2009, 11:43 AM

Were the temperatures and sea level caused by the CO2, or vice versa?

SamIam · 10-20-2009, 12:06 PM

Interesting question, Bruce. The paper does not address that. However, current carbon isotope studies show that the CO2 increase we are experiencing today is because of human induced carbon emissions. Put that together with the close correlation of CO2 levels and temperature and sea level increases, and we have a major cause for concern.

SamIam · 10-20-2009, 12:32 PM

Also, from this link:
http://www.koshland-science-museum.o...storical03.jsp

Undertoad · 10-20-2009, 11:57 AM

Reading the story, the researcher is clinically careful not to draw any conclusion on that question.

TheMercenary · 10-20-2009, 01:57 PM

One really good global disaster should put things back in balance. I guess we really need to get India and China to the table so the world doesn't end.

Undertoad · 10-20-2009, 02:11 PM

Sam, that graph appears to be bullshit. Wikipedia has a comparison chart of "10 different published reconstructions of mean temperature changes during the last 1000 years."

SamIam · 10-20-2009, 03:27 PM

Even on your graph, the temperatures all go toward a warming trend in recent times. And while we're at it, lets contemplate this graph from the same Wikipedia site you refer to.

Undertoad · 10-20-2009, 04:20 PM

This is the 1000 year graph hosted locally

The black line on this graph is the "instrumental record", which is what your attached graph shows.

The other methods of measurement don't completely agree with the instrumental record, but all agree on warming for the last 130-160 years.

ETA: except for Mr. Red, there, who also seems to be the most extreme.

SamIam · 10-20-2009, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

The other methods of measurement don't completely agree with the instrumental record, but all agree on warming for the last 130-160 years.

My point exactly. They all agree on warming.

Undertoad · 10-20-2009, 04:48 PM

So we all agree. There has been warming.

Spexxvet · 10-20-2009, 04:50 PM

So what next? Take action? Do nothing?

10-20-2009, 10:27 AM	#1
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 21,393	Still BS. You made a broad sweeping statement and it is false. If you want to narrow it down to those two organizations as your example I agree with you. __________________ Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012!

10-20-2009, 10:36 AM	#3
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 21,393	Institutes generally don't represent industry. You can find a mirid of opinions from their subject matter experts but I am certain we could find some pretty inflamatory statements from any organization you didn't agree with. __________________ Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012!

10-20-2009, 11:43 AM	#5
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Were the temperatures and sea level caused by the CO2, or vice versa? __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

10-20-2009, 12:32 PM	#7
SamIam Registered User Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Not here Posts: 2,655	Also, from this link: http://www.koshland-science-museum.o...storical03.jsp Attached Images

10-20-2009, 01:57 PM	#9
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 21,393	One really good global disaster should put things back in balance. I guess we really need to get India and China to the table so the world doesn't end. __________________ Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012!

10-20-2009, 12:06 PM	#6
SamIam Registered User Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Not here Posts: 2,655	Interesting question, Bruce. The paper does not address that. However, current carbon isotope studies show that the CO2 increase we are experiencing today is because of human induced carbon emissions. Put that together with the close correlation of CO2 levels and temperature and sea level increases, and we have a major cause for concern.

10-20-2009, 11:57 AM	#8
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Reading the story, the researcher is clinically careful not to draw any conclusion on that question.

10-20-2009, 02:11 PM	#10
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Sam, that graph appears to be bullshit. Wikipedia has a comparison chart of "10 different published reconstructions of mean temperature changes during the last 1000 years."

10-20-2009, 03:27 PM	#11
SamIam Registered User Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Not here Posts: 2,655	Even on your graph, the temperatures all go toward a warming trend in recent times. And while we're at it, lets contemplate this graph from the same Wikipedia site you refer to. Attached Images

10-20-2009, 04:20 PM	#12
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	This is the 1000 year graph hosted locally The black line on this graph is the "instrumental record", which is what your attached graph shows. The other methods of measurement don't completely agree with the instrumental record, but all agree on warming for the last 130-160 years. ETA: except for Mr. Red, there, who also seems to be the most extreme.

10-20-2009, 04:48 PM	#14
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	So we all agree. There has been warming.

10-20-2009, 04:50 PM	#15
Spexxvet Makes some feel uncomfortable Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 10,346	So what next? Take action? Do nothing? __________________ "I'm certainly free, nay compelled, to spread the gospel of Spex. " - xoxoxoBruce

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