Perverting science for politics

[xoxoxoBruce]

Bullshit, it's not the truth. Worst case scenario is a guess how bad it could get if a lot of variables went a certain way. If your shoe catches fire, the worst case scenario is you'll end up as a pile of ashes, but that is very unlikely unless a lot of unlikely shit happens. NOAA didn't know what would happen, nobody knew, not even BP.

It was BP's responsibility to clean it up, not the governments. The government stepped in when BP failed to do that fast enough.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

And given the technical difficulties of the job, I'll publicly doubt it made a difference in speed of fixing.

[TheMercenary]

Well this was interesting to read:

In Greece earlier this month, Al Gore made a startling admission: "First-generation ethanol, I think, was a mistake." Unfortunately, Americans have Gore to thank for ethanol subsidies. In 1994, then-Vice President Gore ended a 50-50 tie in the Senate by voting in favor of an ethanol tax credit that added almost $5 billion to the federal deficit last year. And that number doesn't factor the many ways in which corn-based ethanol mandates drive up the price of food and livestock feed.

Sure, he meant well, but as Reuters reported, Gore also said, "One of the reasons I made that mistake is that I paid particular attention to the farmers in my home state of Tennessee and I had a certain fondness for the farmers in the state of Iowa because I was about to run for president."

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...ke_108085.html

[glatt]

Interesting that he would admit that out loud. I guess he's never going to run for office again, so it doesn't matter.

I've always thought those small early primary states have way more influence than they should.

[classicman]

At least he admitted his mistake. Thats more than most of them.

[Lamplighter]

It's not just Gore that made some bad decisions about 1st generation ethanol.

There were cautions expressed to the growers about the
financial risks involved in buying into local corn->alcohol facilities...
and although the demand for EtOH would be going up,
the economies of scale were such that small plants would not be financially viable.
Some of the growers did not pay enough attention.

[xoxoxoBruce]

It was a bad idea from the gitgo.

[TheMercenary]

The bottom line is Gore, and all his glad-handing global warming bs, did it for one reason. To get elected. Not because he had the interests of the enviroment or farmers or anyone else in mind. Selfish prick.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Selfish prick Politician.

[TheMercenary]

Point noted. I use the terms interchangeably.

[TheMercenary]

Another good article.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/...president.html

[tw]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

The bottom line is Gore, and all his glad-handing global warming bs, did it for one reason. To get elected.

And again, numbers and reality contradict the conclusion. Gore was out of office in 2000. Domestic ethanol was required by a Republican Congress and Republican White House starting 2003. But let’s blame Gore because political agendas are more important than reality.

Meanwhile, facts are so one sided that everyone in the Cellar should be critical of ethanol.

When mankind first used oil, one unit of energy resulted in 100 units of petroleum energy. Now that we have burned up all the easy and ‘sweet’ stuff, we only get 30 energy units per one unit to produce it.

One unit of energy is required to produce one whole unit of ethanol energy. No problem. We are making more (unproductive) jobs. According to political spin, that is good. That’s one unit of coal or oil to provide one unit of ethanol.

Last number I saw, ethanol producers are given $1.01 per gallon by government. Corporate welfare. Also part of that early 2000 Republican law. After all, Regan proves that deficits don't matter.

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by tw

And again, numbers and reality contradict the conclusion. Gore was out of office in 2000. Domestic ethanol was required by a Republican Congress and Republican White House starting 2003. But let’s blame Gore because political agendas are more important than reality.

Meanwhile, facts are so one sided that everyone in the Cellar should be critical of ethanol.

When mankind first used oil, one unit of energy resulted in 100 units of petroleum energy. Now that we have burned up all the easy and ‘sweet’ stuff, we only get 30 energy units per one unit to produce it.

One unit of energy is required to produce one whole unit of ethanol energy. No problem. We are making more (unproductive) jobs. According to political spin, that is good. That’s one unit of coal or oil to provide one unit of ethanol.

Last number I saw, ethanol producers are given $1.01 per gallon by government. Corporate welfare. Also part of that early 2000 Republican law. After all, Regan proves that deficits don't matter.

[HungLikeJesus]

Actually, the energy balance ratio for ethanol depends on what it's being made from. In 2002, the energy balance for corn ethanol was 1:1.34 (http://www.usda.gov/oce/reports/energy/aer-814.pdf). Since that time, improvements have been made in both farming techniques and ethanol production technologies.

Ethanol from sugar cane is reported to have a much higher energy balance (about 1:8); the energy balance for cellulosic ethanol is currently similar to corn, but a lot of research is on-going to improve that.

[TheMercenary]

A few friends of mine and I are looking into growing switch grass as a renewable source to sell to power plants.