Shooting at Virginia Tech

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Unfair and cowardly would be to kill your opponent before they have a chance to shoot - as soon as you see the gun.

I would disagree. That would be the smartest move. If a criminal pulls a gun on you and you shoot and kill that person, you will not find a jury that will convict that person for defending themselves. Well unless they are OJ's jury.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

I would disagree. That would be the smartest move. If a criminal pulls a gun on you and you shoot and kill that person, ...

Are you saying that you will have your gun out and ready to shoot before the criminal does? If you don't, it would be unlikely that you could draw your gun and shoot the criminal first, since he has his gun already pointing at you.

A criminal walks up to you, points his gun at you and says "give me all your gum". How are you going to kill him, even if you're packing heat?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Are you saying that you will have your gun out and ready to shoot before the criminal does? If you don't, it would be unlikely that you could draw your gun and shoot the criminal first, since he has his gun already pointing at you.

A criminal walks up to you, points his gun at you and says "give me all your gum". How are you going to kill him, even if you're packing heat?

No one can state how or where and under what circumstances anyone is going to encounter any situation. Who knows? I will tell you if I have a chance to pull it out and shoot the person dead, without asking questions, I will do it. Of course you are talking to someone who has had formal combat CQ handgun training from H&K. So my position is much different from others. There are many ways to foil events like this. Dramatic gestures work very well in diffusing situations like this. One of the least used and most effective is for a person to put his/her hands up and scream at the top of your lungs over and over "Don't shoot..... (bla, bla, bla)". Fall to the ground and obtain your weapon and fire. There are others, but you need to be ready and train for such events. Nine times out of ten you have been targeted because you presented yourself as a target. Situational awareness is number one. Learning to avoid becoming a victim is more important than learning to shoot a gun, or owning one. There are plenty of law abiding citizens male and female, who should probably not allow themselves to get anywhere near a gun, for their own safety.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Are you saying that you will have your gun out and ready to shoot before the criminal does? If you don't, it would be unlikely that you could draw your gun and shoot the criminal first, since he has his gun already pointing at you.

A criminal walks up to you, points his gun at you and says "give me all your gum". How are you going to kill him, even if you're packing heat?

I would just grab your happy ass and hold you in front of me until they finished firing all of their bullets, hoping that you would catch most of them in your chest or head and I would be missed completely. Then I would knock the bad guy down with your limp body by throwing your bloody mess at him! Then I would give him your gum.

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

A criminal walks up to you, points his gun at you and says "give me all your gum". How are you going to kill him, even if you're packing heat?

Why, you'd have to be Quick Draw McGraw!

[freshnesschronic]

Its common sense. If you put two people with guns in the same room and one threatens the other in a stressful situation, things will usually go downhill fast.

No, it is not common sense. It is your biased opinion. I win!

[cowhead]

wow... champaign huh? I spent a few years there growing up... southside elementary school, last time I was thru it was closed down.. hesslle (sp?) park? we lived a few blocks from there.. there was a twisty brick lined street.. huh... memories..

my granmonster (meant with love mind you) lives right behind the poolhall where they shot the color of money... in little poland town ) if you ever do the sausage thing... (food... mind you) head out of the laramie station L station, head down the road and hit the Krakow deli... best damn sausage in the world (or as much of the world as I know, which is a little bit).. made by people who speak nglish as a second language... but I have never heard words that i didn't understand sound more beautiful coming from that blackhaired ice blueeyed woman behind the counter....

[Bullitt]

If only this lady had been there...
"She had to balance on her walker as she pulled out a snub-nosed .38-caliber handgun..."

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Bullitt

If only this lady had been there...
"She had to balance on her walker as she pulled out a snub-nosed .38-caliber handgun..."

Like I said, if keeping your stuff or die trying is your life goal, and you're willing to kill someone to keep your stuff, pack heat.

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Like I said, if keeping your stuff or die trying is your life goal, and you're willing to kill someone to keep your stuff, pack heat.

I really didn't think this was the idea, since the law in nearly every state requires you to flee if you can in almost all situations outside of one's home. Some states won't let you fire a shot on a home intruder unless they show violent intent with a weapon.

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Unfair and cowardly would be to kill your opponent before they have a chance to shoot - as soon as you see the gun.

You're really going to have to explain this to me, because I don't understand that statement.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

two people are packing guns, one is a criminal. Explain how the likelihood of death doesn't increase.

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

The criminal is a coward, and wasn't planning on (and isn't interested in) a fair fight.

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Unfair and cowardly would be to kill your opponent before they have a chance to shoot - as soon as you see the gun.

Originally Posted by Kitsune

You're really going to have to explain this to me, because I don't understand that statement.

Cowardice is avoiding situations that put you in danger. There's not a whole lot of situations more dangerous than having a gun pointing at you. If you are an armed criminal, the easiest and surest way of avoiding the danger of a gun being pointed at you would be to kill your victim before they have a chance to aim their gun at you. As soon as you see a gun, bang! An armed criminal facing an armed victim would not run away - that would give the victim the opportunity to shoot the criminal as he fled.

A fair fight would be one in which both parties have the same tools. A criminal would not want a fair fight. An easy way to keep the fight unfair would be to eliminate the victim's ability to use a gun - in other words pre-emptively shoot the victim. Again: see a gun and bang!

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

What was the point of that? Do you expect me to list all the options that are irrelevant to the point?

Your whole point here was, "If you have a gun, they will shoot you."

My response was, "Unless they don't, which is at least equally likely."

Your response was, "Yeah, that's a possibility, so what?"

Your point is invalid.

[Kitsune]

From here, only updated for today.

Of course the [Virginia Tech Shootings] are a uniquely tragic event, and it is vital that we never lose sight of the human tragedy involved. However, we must also consider if this is not also a lesson to us all; a lesson that my political views are correct. Although what is done can never be undone, the fact remains that if the world were organised according to my political views, this tragedy would never have happened.

Many people will use this terrible tragedy as an excuse to put through a political agenda other than my own. This tawdry abuse of human suffering for political gain sickens me to the core of my being. Those people who have different political views from me ought to be ashamed of themselves for thinking of cheap partisan point-scoring at a time like this. In any case, what this tragedy really shows us is that, so far from putting into practice political views other than my own, it is precisely my political agenda which ought to be advanced.

Not only are my political views vindicated by this terrible tragedy, but also the status of my profession. Furthermore, it is only in the context of a national and international tragedy like this that we are reminded of the very special status of my hobby, and its particular claim to legislative protection. My religious and spiritual views also have much to teach us about the appropriate reaction to these truly terrible events.

Countries which I like seem to never suffer such tragedies, while countries which, for one reason or another, I dislike, suffer them all the time. The one common factor which seems to explain this has to do with my political views, and it suggests that my political views should be implemented as a matter of urgency, even though they are, as a matter of fact, not implemented in the countries which I like.

Of course the [Virginia Tech Shootings] are a uniquely tragic event, and it is vital that we never lose sight of the human tragedy involved. But we must also not lose sight of the fact that I am right on every significant moral and political issue, and everybody ought to agree with me. Please, I ask you as fellow human beings, vote for the political party which I support, and ask your legislators to support policies endorsed by me, as a matter of urgency.

It would be a fitting memorial.

[piercehawkeye45]

I said if they have a gun and see that you have a gun, they may shoot you.

It wasn't a definite statement meaning there are other possibilities.

My statement is valid as long as you don’t change what I say.

[duck_duck]

Here is some candy for you pro-gun people.