Life under GWB

[lumberjim]

my life has improved because i've worked my ass off. GWB is irrelevant to me in the day to day, but offends my sensibilities with his policy, both domestic and foreign.

who can say that a president directly effected them unless they actually work in politics, or for him personally? how do i know that i woudnt have been doing better or worse had Gore been at the helm, lo these last 5 years?

fuckedifIknow.

[Griff]

heh under Bush.

http://home.san.rr.com/crocuta/GayBetaMax.htm

[BigV]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

--snip--As a threat to civil liberties, roving wiretaps just don't compete with people being taken off to war against their will. In these days, the civil liberties horror is that the protestors have to be in a certain special area. Back then, people were getting SHOT during protests.--snip--

I'm just gonna cherry pick here UT, cause I gotta jet, but...

Civil liberty erosion is considerably more dire that having the protestors confined far away, although I find that chickenshit at best. I'm talking about stuff like this. U.S. Can Confine Citizens Without Charges, Court Rules So now it's "legal" to just sweep you up. Maybe you'll stay in the United States, uncharged, incommunicado, or maybe you be subject to "extraordinary rendition". These are GWB spirited policies. Not just sticking his fingers in his ears when people protest. He can make you go away.

He's pressing hard for the expansion of the military's role in a domestic disaster. As if he didn't already have the ability to mobilize the federal forces for everything BUT law enforcement, now he wants that--the end of posse commitatus. That's not a filter, that's not chicken little. That's a real problem.

Originally Posted by Undertoad

The story of the rich getting richer and poor getting poorer is repeated all the time. In all the years I've had my head out of the sand, I've heard the doomsayers making that same statement. By this time the rich should be shitting on golden toilets and the poor should have the distended bellies we see in famine Africa. But we aren't, because the doomy gloomy vision is a bad filter.

I can't fairly allocate all the blame for the greatest disparity in wealth in our nation's history to GWB, but this dangerous situation has been accelerated by his policies and ideas. If you hollow out the middle, the tiny tip of the pyramid has nothing to support it. No, I don't have a calendar date to post, but I believe we're careening toward the train wreck described by Tonchi. GWB has greased those skids to his own short sighted benefit, and we'll all suffer later, like so many are suffering now. The ludicrous adventure in Iraq is just his trophy example of poor leadership. Poor stewardship of this country's trust and resources. A shameful waste of our blood and treasure.

Originally Posted by Undertoad

If you think things are going to hell in a handbasket, maybe you don't remember - things are always going to hell in a handbasket. We have seen this before, and not only did we live through it, we got better.

For example, Iraq is now broadly considered another Vietnam, but Vietnam was in fact much worse. Many more soldiers died during it and those soliders were typically drafted. When you focus out on the big picture, you see things anew. As a threat to civil liberties, roving wiretaps just don't compete with people being taken off to war against their will. In these days, the civil liberties horror is that the protestors have to be in a certain special area. Back then, people were getting SHOT during protests.

The US first became involved in the Vietnam conflict in 1956. The first contingent of marines arrived there in 1965. My Dad did his first tour in 'Nam in 1964. At that point, military with orders for Vietnam could still sometimes bring dependents with them on their tour of duty. I remember reading the army pamplet for spouses and families on what to expect of life in Saigon. Who can say what the conflict in Iraq will turn into? Not me. I do know that the army is having great difficulty meeting recruitment targets and over on the Army Times board, there is the strong scent of a new draft order in the air. Something is going to have to give at the current rate. We will either get out of Iraq or re-instate the draft. Certainly, young men are still being required to sign up for selective service.

As far as anti-war protestors being shot, this was not a matter of government rules or regulations. Kent State was the result of inexperienced members of the National Guard under incompetant leadership, not official policy. It is now official policy that protestors be cordoned off somewhere out of sight. This is an infringement of free speech that was never dreamed of in even the darkest days of the Vietnam era.

[Undertoad]

But you are applying a filter to your vision of the world, and you are probably wrong.

Originally Posted by Undertoad

But you are applying a filter to your vision of the world, and you are probably wrong.

Who? Me? How were my statements above wrong?

[wolf]

When your support is entirely through public assistance you have a much different view of the state of the world than if you're actually working to earn your keep.

And before you start ... how or why you are on welfare/disability/support payments is not relevant to the viewpoint. The fact is that you are, and therefore view any possibility of change to that as a threat to your well-being.

[xoxoxoBruce]

My quality of life has improved under GWB.
Hey, I work for the military/industrial hydra, and the money flows like water.

Your money, your children's money, your children's children's money.
Bwahahahahahahahahahaha.

[Undertoad]

The only way you could have had a brighter future, xoB, is if the Democrats had won. Al Gore proposed a defense budget increase of $100B over W's budget. He was the hawkest of all hawks at one time.

[mrnoodle]

Believe it or not, I didn't have an agenda when I put up this poll, other than being genuinely curious where people stood. I really expected more "my life is worse because I HATE HIM AND I HOPE HE DIES AND HE EATS BABIES!!!!!!!11"

We all seem to perceive some kind of relationship between national politics and our day to day lives, but is it possible that for most of us, this is an illusion? Yes, national policy affects the grand scheme of things, and at some point a trickle down the back of our neck can be traced (vaguely) back to a particular cloud. But maybe the problem isn't the cloud -- maybe you should have shut the collar on your shirt [/weak metaphor]. But if you're not in the military, on welfare, or otherwise intimately involved with government, isn't it all just academic in the end? How many of us (I'm sure there are some) can actually say "In 1999, I sure enjoyed replenishing my soul at location <x>, but then Bush came and cut down all the trees, and now a piece of me is gone forever." How many can say "I had a job in 99, but when Bush got into office, I was not only laid off, but unable to find work simply because of who was in the white house. It had nothing to do with my performance or any other economic factors."

I think quality of life is measured by your relationship with God, family, friends, and your immediate environment. Money's important, so is fun. So is not being afraid. But just because one chooses to build their life around doom and gloom just because they didn't get their guy in the WH, doesn't make their shitty life anyone's fault but theirs.

/2cents, etc.

[Pie]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Hey, I work for the military/industrial hydra, and the money flows like water.

Unfortunately, I'm in the same boat with you, Bruce. Yes, I have a hard time sleeping at night, and an even harder time getting up to go to work in the morning.
However, I'll state that my QOL has decreased under Bush -- I was unemployed for 8 months. I worry (at least twice a day, when I listen to the news) about how badly he's f*cking up our country and our world. I have a hard time trying to think of ONE thing he has done in the past 5 years with which I can agree.

Originally Posted by wolf

When your support is entirely through public assistance you have a much different view of the state of the world than if you're actually working to earn your keep.

And before you start ... how or why you are on welfare/disability/support payments is not relevant to the viewpoint. The fact is that you are, and therefore view any possibility of change to that as a threat to your well-being.

Wasn't going to start. And my support is not entirely through SSDI. And the concerns I voiced are valid for EVERYBODY, not just someone on disability who is also on the Ticket to WORK program.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by marichiko

If our lives are not affected by those whom we choose to lead us (or those who grab power into their own hands), then why is democracy such a sacred ideal?

Because democracy itself does not choose who leads us, nor require any specific ideals of them. It is merely a system of allowing people to choose. My life has improved because I have the freedom to choose what I do with it. If a real dictator came along, I believe that the system would work and he would be voted out. It is not the leader's responsibility to improve my life, it is my responsibility to vote for people who will allow me to improve my own life.

Originally Posted by marichiko

People who state that the government has no impact on their personal lives are being disingenious at best, fools who deserve the government that is coming for them, at worst.

The government as it exists (namely, democracy) has lots of impact on my personal life compared to, say, socialism. The particular platforms of a specific administration, however, do not.

Originally Posted by marichiko

And the concerns I voiced are valid for EVERYBODY, not just someone on disability who is also on the Ticket to WORK program.

Your concerns are not valid for me. The quality of the air I breathe and the water I drink has not changed for me in the last 5 years. My ability to go to the beautiful places "where the wild things are" has not been hampered in my entire life, and besides I have entirely other methods by which I prefer to replenish my soul. I have never had to comfort a friend whose husband has orders for Iraq in a couple of weeks, but if I did my comfort would be somewhat less heart-wrenched than yours because I understand that that's the job they signed up for. I can still say anything I want (freedom of speech), congregate with any of my peers at any time (freedom of assembly), and I have never been arrested (the right to due process), let alone in the past five years. I know that tragedies are a part of life, so when I see my fellow countrymen trapped without food or water or sanitation or medical care for 6 fucking days, I don't feel any more or less heartsick and powerless than one normally does in those situations, which have been happening for considerably more than 5 years. I do not believe that there is any such thing as the child who might have grown up to be a scientist who will be 100% stunted in his genuine efforts because he recieves a sub quality education, sub standard medical care and ends up working all his days as a janitor because I know there are dozens of factors at play in such a conjecture. I am lightly annoyed when I see a man with a sign reading "Homeless Vet, please help!", but I haven't seen an increase in the number of them over my entire lifetime.

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

I have never had to comfort a friend whose husband has orders for Iraq in a couple of weeks, but if I did my comfort would be somewhat less heart-wrenched than yours because I understand that that's the job they signed up for... I am lightly annoyed when I see a man with a sign reading "Homeless Vet, please help!", but I haven't seen an increase in the number of them over my entire lifetime.

Lucky you. And how do you know the quality of my response? Just because someone signs up for a career in the military, should I feel indifferent when they recieve orders for a combat zone in what I percieve to be an unjust and uncalled for war? My Dad proudly served this country as a member of the career military for 30 years. Does this mean that I worried any less for his safety when he was called upon to fight in Vietnam, not once but twice? Because he "volunteered" was his life less worthy of concern than some damn civilian's who chose to stay at home?

I'm old as the hills, Clodfobble and I grew up in a military town. I can assure you that once upon time it would have been unthinkable to see that man with his "Homeless Vet" sign.

As for the rest of your response, you are welcome to your opinion, but your opinion sucks in regard to the soldier with orders for Iraq. I support our troops with all my heart. It makes me angry and sad to see brave men and women sent off to possibly die in a stupid, unnecessary war. I don't have your sublime indifference to this.

[Perry Winkle]

The good thing is GWB only has a couple more years to fuck things up. Then we get some new moron to fuck things up in new and wonderful ways.

I won't be happy with any government until I'm elected Infallible Supreme Lord Emperor of the Known Universe.
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