Murder rate in Florida headed toward ZERO per 100,000!

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by darclauz

Maybe the grand jury will indict the shooter later...

Isn't this the only threat the shooter faced prior to this law as well? People with a whiplash temper were either going to shoot your dad before or not. They're not going to look at this law and say "Well whoo-ee! All those consequences that were keeping me in check are gone! Let's get to killin'!"

[wolf]

Joe Gangbanger won't have a legally purchased weapon, and he won't have a concealed carry permit.

It's not going to be the wild west, people. Otherwise law abiding citizens will not be calling each other out on whatever they call Main Street in Miami Beach.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by marichiko

And how many folks pack guns around with them when they go down to the grocery store or the office? Not many.

My mother, father, and stepfather for starters. Also most of their friends and associates. But then, I do live in Texas.

Originally Posted by marichiko

Who is the most likely person to have a gun on them and feel no hesitation in using it, outside the police? A criminal.

Maybe, but how has that changed from the way it was before this law?

Originally Posted by marichiko

So, a drug deal goes bad, Joe Gangbanger shoots his dealer and claims he was threatened and walks.

Eh. That's one less drug dealer at least, right?

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

My mother, father, and stepfather for starters. Also most of their friends and associates. But then, I do live in Texas.

'Nuff said! Us wuss's in Colorado generally don't, unless you count the rifle prominently displayed in the rack on the rear window of the pick-up truck crowd. Most of them are ranchers on the Western slope, though, and they use their guns to shoot coyotes and Texans!

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Maybe, but how has that changed from the way it was before this law?

Not a bit as far as I know. But now the criminal might have a better chance of evading prosecution. Granted, there's lots of dumb criminals out there, but the smart ones will register a gun to keep handy just in case.

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Eh. That's one less drug dealer at least, right?

Agreed! Should have used a different example. How about Joe Gangbanger having a bad hair day and randomly shooting an innocent bystander just because he can and he was smart enough to go get his little self a permit?

[plthijinx]

i used to carry. i let my conceal license expire on my birthday. the only place that i would not carry were places that it was prohibited. why did i get my license in the first place? i was walking my dog down the street from my house and was held up by four individuals from the car they had stolen. three of them held a gun on me. now, would having a gun in that situation of helped? no, not immediately, you can't win an already drawn gun fight. i could have, however, shot the back window out of the car or shot it in the trunk or whatever as to mark it because the cops were called and had someone pulled over that matched the description that i gave over the phone. when i was talking to the cops they mentioned in so many words that "marking" the car would've made it a lot easier to identify the assailants.

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by plthijinx

i could have, however, shot the back window out of the car or shot it in the trunk or whatever as to mark it because the cops were called and had someone pulled over that matched the description that i gave over the phone. when i was talking to the cops they mentioned in so many words that "marking" the car would've made it a lot easier to identify the assailants.

Uh-huh, and if you missed the bullet could have traveled how far and to where?

I'm constantly reading about 9-year-olds being shot by drug dealers. This isn't because drug dealers deliberately target children, it's because they point the gun and shoot without considering where the bullet goes if it misses.

If you want to 'mark' cars buy a paintball gun.

[plthijinx]

Originally Posted by richlevy

Uh-huh, and if you missed the bullet could have traveled how far and to where?

I'm constantly reading about 9-year-olds being shot by drug dealers. This isn't because drug dealers deliberately target children, it's because they point the gun and shoot without considering where the bullet goes if it misses.

If you want to 'mark' cars buy a paintball gun.

maybe. i would still fire. and not a paint gun.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by richlevy

I'm constantly reading about 9-year-olds being shot by drug dealers. This isn't because drug dealers deliberately target children, it's because they point the gun and shoot without considering where the bullet goes if it misses.

Also because the 9-year-old's parent lets them wander around in the streets where the drug dealers are.

[russotto]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Also because the 9-year-old's parent lets them wander around in the streets where the drug dealers are.

And because the 9-year-old "honor student" (every dead kid is an honor student) was probably involved in the drug trade.

[wolf]

Originally Posted by russotto

And because the 9-year-old "honor student" (every dead kid is an honor student) was probably involved in the drug trade.

In the neighborhoods where these sorts of things happen, that's true. By the time these kids are 8 or 9 they are working as runners, lookouts, and holding onto a few things for the big kids.

[Beestie]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Also because the 9-year-old's parent lets them wander around in the streets where the drug dealers are.

Originally Posted by russotto

And because the 9-year-old "honor student" (every dead kid is an honor student) was probably involved in the drug trade.

In DC, where honest citizens voluntarily surrendered their right to own guns, 9-year olds wind up with bullets in their heads while watching Sponge Bob with grandma in their living room. There's at least one or two of these per year where the bullet enters the home through a window or through a floor or ceiling of an adjacent unit and kills a perfectly innocent child - sometimes a sleeping child.

In Virginia, where its legal to carry a fully visible firearm, these things are unheard of.

Gun control is not only ineffective but counterproductive. The higher the firearm restrictions, the higher the proportion of gun ownership among the criminal element, the higher the crime rate. Duh. I live in VA and have met all the requirements to own and carry a firearm. I have chosen to stick with knives and do not own a gun. However, I praise the effort of the NRA (not across the board but in general) and will vigorously oppose any proposed restrictions on the rights of Virginians to own and carry firearms.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Beestie

Gun control is not only ineffective but counterproductive. The higher the firearm restrictions, the higher the proportion of gun ownership among the criminal element, the higher the crime rate.

But which is cause, and which is effect?

[Beestie]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

But which is cause, and which is effect?

Fair question. I'll research instances where gun control was relaxed and where gun control was tightened and compare the before and after crime rates and report back.

But, common sense seems to apply here - when controls are tightened, its the honest, law-abiding folk who "turn in their weapons" which tilts the balance in a predictable direction.

DC is fond of laying some of the blame for its gun crime problems on Virginia by pointing out that while guns are "not available" in DC, the bad guys just cross the Potomac and load up. Ummmmmmmmmm.

I may be wrong about this, but...

When I have visited the DC area (been a few years now, admittedly), it seemed to me that the middle class enclaves were mostly in northern VA. The poor folks lived in DC proper. Could the difference in shootings be more about socio-economics than gun laws?

[wolf]

Joe Gangbanger won't qualify for a permit, nor can he make a legal firearm purchase.

Neither of which stop him from being a Menace 2 Society®.

Assuming that the law will allow for random shootings is the kind of ridiculous extrapolation for which anti-gunner rhetoric is known.

"Just needed killin'" is not a valid legal defense, even in Texas.

Oh, and don't be so sure about the number of people carrying guns in Colorado. You might want to refresh yourself on the meaning of "concealed."

Philadelphia-area Cellarites have seen me at a variety of social functions in different settings. Exactly how many of those times have you seen a weapon, other than my razor-sharp wit?