MLM = morons losing money - Page 2

tw · 03-15-2005, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigV

Would you please expand on your position with respect to services? ..., bees migrate to neighbor's dandelion farm. No product, but this surely isn't a scam.

Bees? What bees? Are you a bee keeper now missing a few thousand employees?

Radar · 03-10-2005, 09:15 PM

Nice. I've lost a few "friends" who invited me to "dinner" and it turned out to be MLM's. It's happened at least 4 or 5 times over the years. When I was a kid I actually was going to do one of them. I even put some money into product and stuff. Then I realized even if the product was great (and this particular product really was) it's not worth my family or friends trying to avoid me.

monicakat · 03-10-2005, 10:52 PM

My younger brother is obsessed with finding some website where he can take surveys and earn money for every survey completed. He purchased a list of sites that do this (against my MANY warnings) and then said they were a faulty source, THEN BOUGHT ANOTHER ONE!! Total spent:$80.00. Total earned: $2.00. That was three months ago.
I love my brother very much, but pretty much consider him a MLM. I don't think he'll do it again (oh my god, if he does......), hopefully he's learned his lesson. But I'm seeing more and more of this every day. The things where you mail off a buncha letters to different people and they're each supossed to send you $...
it's worthy of a big huge rant!

smoothmoniker · 03-10-2005, 11:31 PM

nothing to add but a hearty "Preach it, Preacher Man!!!"

cowhead · 03-11-2005, 02:11 AM

uh, yeah a solid amen to that..

I almost got taken in by Markowitz.. man! they're like a cult. good thing I had left my checkbook at home.

(they sell all that gawd-awful junk you see in kwik shops and such)

Catwoman · 03-11-2005, 03:40 AM

I'm sorry, but if someone is gullible enough to buy into a scheme they don't understand, out of greed or desperation, they deserve everything they get.

The desperation bit might sound harsh, but if you are truly desperate (can't feed kids and family etc) surely you want to do something that will actually make you money, not just pretend to make you money. So you'd do your research and not fall for sloppy sales techniques. There's no excuse for stupidity.

Perry Winkle · 03-11-2005, 05:08 AM

Not all pyramid schemes are bad. The free*.com ones from Gratis are kick ass. I've got several things(ipod, mac mini, and 19" lcd) from them with no problem.

Here's a financial analysis of how they make money doing this:
http://people.bu.edu/jbrock/ipod_analysis.htm

hot_pastrami · 03-11-2005, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grant

Not all pyramid schemes are bad. The free*.com ones from Gratis are kick ass. I've got several things(ipod, mac mini, and 19" lcd) from them with no problem.

Gah... one of their agents is here.

I've known a few people who've become involved with MLM stuff, and they always consider themselves that "exception to the MLM rule," the one who wasn't taken in, who doesn't annoy their friends with it, who just "do it a little on the side." That always means they're fooling themselves, or that they ran out of ambition and they're trying to wash the shame off with a chunk of steel wool.

MLM has only been pitched to me once... a co-worker approached me and asked "Have you ever heard of Equinox?"

I laughed and replied, "I've heard that they're a bunch of crooks who turn your friends into slimy salesmen." He never brought it up again.

Guyute · 03-12-2005, 09:49 AM

I know two guys who have become stinking rich by most people's standards in exactly that business so vilified above. One guy makes about $200K CDN and his upline makes about $500K CDN. They did it the old-fashioned way- they worked. They approached people professionally ( I watched them do it a few times) and never misled people. It is a shame that people ruin the potential for this type of business by being either deceitful or over-zealous.

It is a dichotomy that most MLM's appeal to the average joe but the average joe has not learned how to talk to people about business or how to deal with people. SO they end up molesting their 4 friends because they are too insecure and untrained to talk to "strangers". These 4 friends, and justifiably, start to wonder wtf got into Joe and cast the whole company and process into a bad light. What pisses me off is that this is exactly the same process that rookie car salesmen, insurance salesmen, and almost any commissioned salesperson must go through, but it is the MLM people that have distorted this whole process to the point that the general population in North America is completely jaded about the opportunity. People close to the noob feel raped and then the noob starts to think that maybe his upline is a dork (in most MLM's they are) so they retire after alienating everyone around them and after having probably blown a wad of cash with a shady upline.

In a PROPERLY-RUN AND -STRUCTURED MLM you should A) not need to buy a whole ton of stuff and B) the "upline" should help you professionally approach people. The end result is someone who either learns the ropes and develops a business or someone who decides that it isn't for them and quits, but has incurred minimal startup costs and fees, and has only asked his friends once or twice, not 142 times. If I wanted to spend $30 000 to start a biz, I would buy a Mail Boxes Etc. franchise. The poor sap who sold $30K of equipment to join an MLM is either completely gullible and should sue his upline (or take him out to a deserted beach and have a chat with him and Mr. Louisville), or he spent the money on other things and the MLM is a convenient scapegoat.

I sympathise with most people because for the most part the MLM's circulating today are very dodgy or require inhibiting startup investments. The reality is that if a person is serious about an MLM opportunity, they should ask the potential upline to spend some time letting him attend meetings or go on "plans" and then they will get a sense of how legitimate the opportunity is. If the "upline" won't let the noob see anything then the guy should run. If he lets him spend some time talking to other leaders, and is able to see some plans, then he will be able to get a feel for the integrity of the upline and the MLM.

hot_pastrami · 03-12-2005, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guyute

In a PROPERLY-RUN AND -STRUCTURED MLM you should A) not need to buy a whole ton of stuff and B) the "upline" should help you professionally approach people. The end result is someone who either learns the ropes and develops a business or someone who decides that it isn't for them and quits, but has incurred minimal startup costs and fees, and has only asked his friends once or twice, not 142 times.

And I'm sure some kinds of snake oil really do cure arthritis, seizures, and impotence.

Your "rich" friends are either lying about the money they make, or they have made their fortunes by scamming the new recruits. Some people DO make good money through MLMs, but they are the minority-- the guys near the top-- and their money is dirty.

Undertoad · 03-12-2005, 10:20 AM

"and never misled people"

Pull the other one dude. I'm sure they still sell to people who don't have their kind of sales ability. I'm sure they sell to strangers who will go on to sell nothing and irritate their friends

If they have that kind of sales ability, they could make just as much selling legitimate items and live with the knowledge they're selling something with an actual benefit to the world.

Or course TELLING you they make that much is one way to sell you on working with them...

lookout123 · 03-12-2005, 10:23 AM

the problem is that most of the people who really get involved with MLM are get-rich-quick-douches. going into a professional sales environment isn't good enough for them because then they "don't control their own destiny". looking for the quick and easy path can often lead to ruin. IMO

richlevy · 03-12-2005, 12:00 PM

Well, you will all be happy to know that I have recognized a need in the community and am willing to fill it.

From here on, I will be selling Multi-Level Marketing Prevention Kits. These kits will contain information for consumers on how to recognize and avoid multi-Level marketing scams. I encourage each and every consumer to purchase one of these kits, which will contain checklists, phone numbers of government agencies, and complaint form letters.

I will be seeking volunteers to help sell these kits. They are useful to give to friends and family who are in need of protection. As an incentive, each person who sells a kit will be paid a commision. In addition if anyone he or she sells a kit to sells a kit, he will be paid a portion of that persons commission. This is a great product to give to friends and family to help eliminate the scourge of multi-Level marketing from their lives.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Ok, now who thought I was serious?

lookout123 · 03-12-2005, 01:47 PM

can i be the initial distributor in phoenix?

Guyute · 03-12-2005, 03:26 PM

OK- so if someone wantes to be THAT cynical, I was not privy to their getting started, so maybe until they got seasoned they might have not handled approaching people right. But does anyone in a new profession? When you started your current job were you such a wiz on the first day that the Big Cheese was freaking out? But they soon must have become more capable because neither couple goes to a typical nine-to-five job. The more wealthy guy has a Mercedes, a Lexus, a Town & Country and a Prevost motor coach. The other guy has a nice condo, and a Town & Country (remember this is going back a couple of years- I lost touch when I moved).

They don't "sell" a lot of products. They use what they can from their own business and show others how to do the same. They sell a little bit because over the course of several years doing something like this you are bound to run into someone who will "buy the soap" but not build the biz. That is it. I don't care what people say, but that is how it is. And why would you say that they don't sell legitimate items? Are you an expert on Amway and other MLM's product offerings? Are Ralph Lauren, Calvin Klein, Jockey and Hush Puppies not "legitimate" enough brand names? Is Hugo Boss cologne not legit enough? And what would you define as beneficial- The wax and water sold in green bottles at Wal-Fart for 83 cents and called shampoo? I know one guy whose son got his hands on their liquid drain cleaner and only shat himself silly. If that had been a "beneficial" product like Drano, he'd be pushing up daisies right now. WOuld you rather that they go to work in a legit profession like car salesmen or insurance? After all, we all know no-one EVER got screwed by a car company or an insurance company...

As I mentioned before, lots of people get going in this type of business and whallop their friends because they are accessible and they don't feel comfortable talking to strangers. They get involved with a guy who either knows little about the business concepts or is a shyster, and that is where things start to go awry.

AS for lying, they may have gotten away with lying for two or three weeks, but not two years. When a guy doesn't work for two or three years and THEN goes and buys a $130 000 car, it's time to cut the shit, pastrami- they built a legit business one person at a time and can afford to buy a top-of-the line car. The assumption that they got rich off of selling kits or scamming new recruits is retarded. There are not enough dumb people in North America to sustain a company that screws new recruits for 40 years, even though our nightly news may indicate otherwise. If a "kit" sells for about $200, how in the world can one guy sell enough of these to buy $200 000 worth of cars and still not work?

Don't get me wrong- My Dad got screwed by several of these "MLM's" and still has some of the stuff in his garage from them. I know there are many more out there that are aimed at getting people in, screwing as many people as possible, then disappearing. I'm not that naive. But in THIS particular case, the facts are simply that not ALL of them are like that. I am the first to be cynical about most opportunities and I encourage people to check them out as long as it takes for you to feel that you are safe.

03-10-2005, 09:15 PM	#2
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	Nice. I've lost a few "friends" who invited me to "dinner" and it turned out to be MLM's. It's happened at least 4 or 5 times over the years. When I was a kid I actually was going to do one of them. I even put some money into product and stuff. Then I realized even if the product was great (and this particular product really was) it's not worth my family or friends trying to avoid me. __________________ "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin

03-10-2005, 10:52 PM	#3
monicakat Homicidal Terrahawk Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Wall drug Posts: 75	My younger brother is obsessed with finding some website where he can take surveys and earn money for every survey completed. He purchased a list of sites that do this (against my MANY warnings) and then said they were a faulty source, THEN BOUGHT ANOTHER ONE!! Total spent:$80.00. Total earned: $2.00. That was three months ago. I love my brother very much, but pretty much consider him a MLM. I don't think he'll do it again (oh my god, if he does......), hopefully he's learned his lesson. But I'm seeing more and more of this every day. The things where you mail off a buncha letters to different people and they're each supossed to send you $... it's worthy of a big huge rant! __________________ No entertainment is so cheap as reading, nor any pleasure so lasting. -Mary Wortley Montagu

03-10-2005, 11:31 PM	#4
smoothmoniker to live and die in LA Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,090	nothing to add but a hearty "Preach it, Preacher Man!!!" __________________ to live and die in LA

03-11-2005, 02:11 AM	#5
cowhead halve your cake and eat it too. Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Georgia.. by way of Lawrence Kansas Posts: 1,359	uh, yeah a solid amen to that.. I almost got taken in by Markowitz.. man! they're like a cult. good thing I had left my checkbook at home. (they sell all that gawd-awful junk you see in kwik shops and such) __________________ no my child.. this is not my desire..I'm digging for fire.

03-11-2005, 03:40 AM	#6
Catwoman stalking a Tom Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: on the edge of the english channel Posts: 1,000	I'm sorry, but if someone is gullible enough to buy into a scheme they don't understand, out of greed or desperation, they deserve everything they get. The desperation bit might sound harsh, but if you are truly desperate (can't feed kids and family etc) surely you want to do something that will actually make you money, not just pretend to make you money. So you'd do your research and not fall for sloppy sales techniques. There's no excuse for stupidity. __________________ I've decided I'm not going to have a signature anymore.

03-11-2005, 05:08 AM	#7
Perry Winkle Esnohplad Semaj Ton Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: A little south of sanity Posts: 2,259	Not all pyramid schemes are bad. The free*.com ones from Gratis are kick ass. I've got several things(ipod, mac mini, and 19" lcd) from them with no problem. Here's a financial analysis of how they make money doing this: http://people.bu.edu/jbrock/ipod_analysis.htm

03-12-2005, 09:49 AM	#9
Guyute Gamehenge Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Halifax, NS Posts: 168	I know two guys who have become stinking rich by most people's standards in exactly that business so vilified above. One guy makes about $200K CDN and his upline makes about $500K CDN. They did it the old-fashioned way- they worked. They approached people professionally ( I watched them do it a few times) and never misled people. It is a shame that people ruin the potential for this type of business by being either deceitful or over-zealous. It is a dichotomy that most MLM's appeal to the average joe but the average joe has not learned how to talk to people about business or how to deal with people. SO they end up molesting their 4 friends because they are too insecure and untrained to talk to "strangers". These 4 friends, and justifiably, start to wonder wtf got into Joe and cast the whole company and process into a bad light. What pisses me off is that this is exactly the same process that rookie car salesmen, insurance salesmen, and almost any commissioned salesperson must go through, but it is the MLM people that have distorted this whole process to the point that the general population in North America is completely jaded about the opportunity. People close to the noob feel raped and then the noob starts to think that maybe his upline is a dork (in most MLM's they are) so they retire after alienating everyone around them and after having probably blown a wad of cash with a shady upline. In a PROPERLY-RUN AND -STRUCTURED MLM you should A) not need to buy a whole ton of stuff and B) the "upline" should help you professionally approach people. The end result is someone who either learns the ropes and develops a business or someone who decides that it isn't for them and quits, but has incurred minimal startup costs and fees, and has only asked his friends once or twice, not 142 times. If I wanted to spend $30 000 to start a biz, I would buy a Mail Boxes Etc. franchise. The poor sap who sold $30K of equipment to join an MLM is either completely gullible and should sue his upline (or take him out to a deserted beach and have a chat with him and Mr. Louisville), or he spent the money on other things and the MLM is a convenient scapegoat. I sympathise with most people because for the most part the MLM's circulating today are very dodgy or require inhibiting startup investments. The reality is that if a person is serious about an MLM opportunity, they should ask the potential upline to spend some time letting him attend meetings or go on "plans" and then they will get a sense of how legitimate the opportunity is. If the "upline" won't let the noob see anything then the guy should run. If he lets him spend some time talking to other leaders, and is able to see some plans, then he will be able to get a feel for the integrity of the upline and the MLM. __________________ It's Really Plain and Easy To See, The Family grows like fungus on a tree.

03-12-2005, 10:20 AM	#11
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	"and never misled people" Pull the other one dude. I'm sure they still sell to people who don't have their kind of sales ability. I'm sure they sell to strangers who will go on to sell nothing and irritate their friends If they have that kind of sales ability, they could make just as much selling legitimate items and live with the knowledge they're selling something with an actual benefit to the world. Or course TELLING you they make that much is one way to sell you on working with them...

03-12-2005, 10:23 AM	#12
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	the problem is that most of the people who really get involved with MLM are get-rich-quick-douches. going into a professional sales environment isn't good enough for them because then they "don't control their own destiny". looking for the quick and easy path can often lead to ruin. IMO __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

03-12-2005, 12:00 PM	#13
richlevy King Of Wishful Thinking Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Philadelphia Suburbs Posts: 6,669	Well, you will all be happy to know that I have recognized a need in the community and am willing to fill it. From here on, I will be selling Multi-Level Marketing Prevention Kits. These kits will contain information for consumers on how to recognize and avoid multi-Level marketing scams. I encourage each and every consumer to purchase one of these kits, which will contain checklists, phone numbers of government agencies, and complaint form letters. I will be seeking volunteers to help sell these kits. They are useful to give to friends and family who are in need of protection. As an incentive, each person who sells a kit will be paid a commision. In addition if anyone he or she sells a kit to sells a kit, he will be paid a portion of that persons commission. This is a great product to give to friends and family to help eliminate the scourge of multi-Level marketing from their lives. . . . . . . . . . . . Ok, now who thought I was serious? __________________ Exercise your rights and remember your obligations - VOTE! I have always believed that hope is that stubborn thing inside us that insists, despite all the evidence to the contrary, that something better awaits us so long as we have the courage to keep reaching, to keep working, to keep fighting. -- Barack Hussein Obama

03-12-2005, 01:47 PM	#14
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	can i be the initial distributor in phoenix? __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

03-12-2005, 03:26 PM	#15
Guyute Gamehenge Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Halifax, NS Posts: 168	OK- so if someone wantes to be THAT cynical, I was not privy to their getting started, so maybe until they got seasoned they might have not handled approaching people right. But does anyone in a new profession? When you started your current job were you such a wiz on the first day that the Big Cheese was freaking out? But they soon must have become more capable because neither couple goes to a typical nine-to-five job. The more wealthy guy has a Mercedes, a Lexus, a Town & Country and a Prevost motor coach. The other guy has a nice condo, and a Town & Country (remember this is going back a couple of years- I lost touch when I moved). They don't "sell" a lot of products. They use what they can from their own business and show others how to do the same. They sell a little bit because over the course of several years doing something like this you are bound to run into someone who will "buy the soap" but not build the biz. That is it. I don't care what people say, but that is how it is. And why would you say that they don't sell legitimate items? Are you an expert on Amway and other MLM's product offerings? Are Ralph Lauren, Calvin Klein, Jockey and Hush Puppies not "legitimate" enough brand names? Is Hugo Boss cologne not legit enough? And what would you define as beneficial- The wax and water sold in green bottles at Wal-Fart for 83 cents and called shampoo? I know one guy whose son got his hands on their liquid drain cleaner and only shat himself silly. If that had been a "beneficial" product like Drano, he'd be pushing up daisies right now. WOuld you rather that they go to work in a legit profession like car salesmen or insurance? After all, we all know no-one EVER got screwed by a car company or an insurance company... As I mentioned before, lots of people get going in this type of business and whallop their friends because they are accessible and they don't feel comfortable talking to strangers. They get involved with a guy who either knows little about the business concepts or is a shyster, and that is where things start to go awry. AS for lying, they may have gotten away with lying for two or three weeks, but not two years. When a guy doesn't work for two or three years and THEN goes and buys a $130 000 car, it's time to cut the shit, pastrami- they built a legit business one person at a time and can afford to buy a top-of-the line car. The assumption that they got rich off of selling kits or scamming new recruits is retarded. There are not enough dumb people in North America to sustain a company that screws new recruits for 40 years, even though our nightly news may indicate otherwise. If a "kit" sells for about $200, how in the world can one guy sell enough of these to buy $200 000 worth of cars and still not work? Don't get me wrong- My Dad got screwed by several of these "MLM's" and still has some of the stuff in his garage from them. I know there are many more out there that are aimed at getting people in, screwing as many people as possible, then disappearing. I'm not that naive. But in THIS particular case, the facts are simply that not ALL of them are like that. I am the first to be cynical about most opportunities and I encourage people to check them out as long as it takes for you to feel that you are safe. __________________ It's Really Plain and Easy To See, The Family grows like fungus on a tree.

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