A funny thing happened on the way to work today,

[lookout123]

Originally Posted by marichiko

If Bush thinks he got a mandate from this election, he's a damned fool.

and if you think that the cellar is truly representative of society at large, you are a damned fool.

this board is primarily inhabited by fairly liberal folks - and that isn't a bad thing. but it is amusing to me that when you all get together in your post election moarning stage (which you deserve) the only thing you come up with is that 54,000,000 + people were either fooled, stupid, or evil. while some of them are - you just can't accept that a lot of americans looked at the same information you have access to and came up with different conclusions. that doesn't make one group intelligent and the other stupid - it makes them different.

the pendulum will swing back without the end of the world. it would be difficult for a republican to be elected in '08. the best thing that could possibly happen for the democratic party is to learn the lesson of '04 and take it to heart. bring the party back to the center so that americans have a choice between the far right and the far left. if that happens i, and many others, will again vote for a democrat for president. i don't want a candidate who only talks tough about the world scene for a few weeks before the election. i said it before - if Kerry's last 20 years gelled with his last 2 months i would have actively campaigned for him.

Lookout, I never said the Cellar was a representative cross section. I was talking about AOL. I don't know how representative that group is either, but certainly its far larger and much more diverse. I very rarely mess around on AOL, I just use it to interface on to the net. Tonight, however, one of their headlines got my eye, and I checked out their nationwide discussion. It was VERY nasty.

[wolf]

The apocalypse is set for 2012. It will not be the job of this administration. it's for the 2008 team.

[Happy Monkey]

I can see why you're expecting Santorum...

[Happy Monkey]

This is what you have bought with your vote:

"The Republican Party is a permanent majority for the future of this country," House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, told supporters Wednesday. "We're going to be able to lead this country in the direction we've been dreaming of for years. . . . We're going to put God back into the public square."

[Beestie]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

This is what you have bought with your vote:

And this is what you left out of your summary:

Other Republican priorities include making President Bush's income tax cuts permanent, capping monetary awards in medical malpractice lawsuits, curbing class-action litigation and enacting an energy policy centered on greater domestic oil and natural gas production.

...

Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., put reforming health care atop his agenda, saying he wants to expand on Congress' enactment of a prescription drug benefit under Medicare.

"We need to have a consumer-driven, patient-centered . . . provider-friendly system," Frist said on NBC-TV's "Today" show. "With that, we can bring down the cost of health care."

Go ahead and focus on the negative all you want to - my point in my prior post still stands: there are positives to a 2nd Bush term. If you want to ignore them that's up to you. I do find it interesting, tho, that a renegade Republican (who, btw, I despise) makes a remark about putting God in the public square and that trumps all the issues that I had to go to the article you cited and highlight myself. That's exactly what I'm talking about - focus on a trivial negative (there are more significan negatives with a Bush admin than that) and ignore all the beneficial policies they want to enact.

Look at the glass anyway you want to but don't say its half empty and then blame me for it. You voted, I voted, the election is over now let's make the most of it. You still have congressmen/women and Senators and the idea of Consitutional merit still stands. The Supreme Courts of BOTH Bible-belt Alabama and the United States BOTH ruled against Judge Moore on the ten commandments thing so I don't know what you are so worried about.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Beestie

I do find it interesting, tho, that a renegade Republican (who, btw, I despise) makes a remark about putting God in the public square and that trumps all the issues that I had to go to the article you cited and highlight myself.

A what? A renegate Republican? I'm happy you despise him, but your view certainly isn't demonstrated by any Republican leadership. He's the Republican House leader. Despite multiple ethics violations and possible criminal action, all explicitly with the purpose of increasing Republican domination, his party has closed ranks around him. Almost all GOP House members accepted money from his PAC. Any compromises worked out in the more bipartisan Senate, get removed by DeLay in conference. This guy is no renegade - accept it: this guy is the new mainstream Republican congressman. His explicit goal, which has been supported and aided by the party machinery, is to get more people like himself elected, and remove the ability of moderate Republicans and Democrats to be elected.

As for what I "left out" - I wasn't attempting to summarize the article, I was pointing out a particular quote. And if you strip the feel-good terminology, the examples you found look more pro-corporate than pro-citizen to me. I see the glass as empty right now, and I hope people notice when they try to drink.

You still have congressmen/women and Senators and the idea of Consitutional merit still stands. The Supreme Courts of BOTH Bible-belt Alabama and the United States BOTH ruled against Judge Moore on the ten commandments thing so I don't know what you are so worried about.

I don't have any Senators or Representatives, but that's a separate issue. And I do have some faith in the courts at this point, but look at the rhetoric coming out of the Republican party right now. It is all geared at reducing respect for the courts. "Activist judges", "liberal courts", sentencing guidelines, preventing class-action lawsuits, capping damages, demonizing trial lawyers, legislation to limit the authority of the courts. Plus, Bush has had record success in appointing judges, has done recess appointments for some of the few that were successfully blocked, and is likely to appoint multiple US Supreme Court justices. Talk is already behinning about removing the filibuster option for even the most partisan nominations Outside the White House, a new Alabama Supreme Court justice is Tom Parker, Roy Moore's legal advisor. This nation is moving in a very dangerous direction.

Originally Posted by Beestie

And this is what you left out of your summary:

Other Republican priorities include making President Bush's income tax cuts permanent, capping monetary awards in medical malpractice lawsuits, curbing class-action litigation and enacting an energy policy centered on greater domestic oil and natural gas production

Go ahead and focus on the negative all you want to - my point in my prior post still stands: there are positives to a 2nd Bush term. If you want to ignore them that's up to you. I do find it interesting, tho, that a renegade Republican (who, btw, I despise) makes a remark about putting God in the public square and that trumps all the issues that I had to go to the article you cited and highlight myself.

You had to highlight it yourself because the rest of us understand just how bogus these "positives" are.

Starting with tax cuts. One of the first things Bush is doing will be to go to Congress and ask for another $40 billion for the war. Where do you think that money will come from? The first two guesses don't count. On top of that Bush's tax cuts amounted to tax INCREASES out there in the real world. The greatest breaks were given to the upper 1% (I'm so glad THEY get to hang on to their money). This aid to the wealthy was paid for by giving less Federal money to the states. The states responding by cutting back on services and at the same time raising state taxes, so we now all get less while paying more. Here are numerous citations from a wide variety of sources on this issue. You don't have to just take my word for it:

"What Tax Cut? States Are Using Higher Taxes and Fees to Take Back What Uncle Sam is Giving Away," U.S. News & World Report, 2/2/04
“Federal Policies Contribute to the Severity of the State Fiscal Crisis,”Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, 12/3/03
"Decline in Federal Grants Will Put Additional Squeeze on State and Local Budgets," Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, 2/3/04
"Up to 1.6 Million Low-Income People - Including About Half a Million Children - Are Losing Health Coverage Due to State Budget Cuts," Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, 12/22/03
"Trends in College Pricing 2003," College Board, 10/21/03
"We're Paying Dearly for Bush's Tax Cuts," Citizens for Tax Justice, 9/23/03
"State Budget Deficits Projected for Fiscal Year 2005," Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, 1/30/04
Figures on the incidence of the Bush tax cuts were provided by the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center.
Figures showing that national debt owed to foreigners have increased from $1 trllion in January 2001 to $1.5 trillion currently are from the U.S. Treasury International Capital System website.
Figures showing that the total assets of the Social Security Trust Funds borrowed by the federal government have increased from $1 trillion in January 2001 to $1.5 trillion currently are from Social Security Online.
Figures showing the $1.3 trillion increase in the national debt under Bush are from the U.S. Bureau of the Public Debt.

Malpractice is not the chief factor driving increased health care costs, so capping malpractice and class action awards will bring little relief in that area.

Increasing US domestic production of non-renewable energy supplies is a questionable cure for our current oil woes. The reason those sources haven't been tapped is cost. We can increase production, but the cost of doing so will show up at the fuel pump and on your utilities bill. It will be a short term fix, anyhow. Oil and natural gas are finite. Sooner or later we are going to be forced into seeking alternative energy supplies. There's no time like the present. The 40 billion dollars we will pour into the Iraq conflict could have funded a plethora of alternative enrgy research projects and been a giant step towards energy self-sufficiency for this country.

Bottom line, all that article is saying is that Bush's policies will continue to charge the average tax payer more money with less in return; a growing deficit; increasing instability in the social security system which is being raided to the tune of over a trillion dollars; and a bandaid to stick on this country's health care problems. Sorry if I see the glass as half empty.

[Beestie]

Originally Posted by marichiko

You had to highlight it yourself because the rest of us understand just how bogus these "positives" are....

You are familar with the idea that if one doesn't vote then he surrenders his right to complain?

Same applies to tax policy.

Same also applies to health care costs.

Regarding energy, what was Kerry's plan again?

Originally Posted by Beestie

You are familar with the idea that if one doesn't vote then he surrenders his right to complain?

Same applies to tax policy.

Same also applies to health care costs.

Excuse me, but I paid income taxes for well over 25 years of my life. I still pay sales tax (local and state), Federal tax at the gas pump, and property taxes which are passed on to me as part of my rent.

I went without adequate health care for over 5 years and missed out on vital treatment because I was paying out of pocket and couldn't afford it. All my prescriptions are still not covered and I pay $135.00 a month from my slender income (derived from the money I put into the system MYSELF over my working career) to cover those costs.

Kerry favored the development of alternative energy resources and incentives for more fuel efficient technologies.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Beestie

I do find it interesting, tho, that a renegade Republican [Tom DeLay] (who, btw, I despise) makes a remark about putting God in the public square and that trumps all the issues that I had to go to the article you cited and highlight myself.

More on the "renegade" Tom DeLay: House Republicans are planning to change the rules to allow DeLay to remain in his leadership position, even if he is indicted in Texas.

[Yelof]

I think this is Beestie's political position

[Beestie]

Originally Posted by Yelof

I think this is Beestie's political position

Too funny!

For the record, I'm not a bad Republican but I do differ from the fellow in the cartoon as follows:

I'm really not a religious wacko and I do oppose prayer in schools (I think prayer is a personal thing not a public thing except in church)
I support conditional abortion legislation. I think late-term abortions are flat out murder.
I don't mind the idea of gay marriage but I can't figure out what a gay family is and, until I do, I oppose it. I support civil unions till then.
I fucking despise the French. As someone famous once said: "France is a nation of whores."
Ultimately, I voted for Bush because he's more American than European.

There are lots of socialist countries around the world but there is only one America. And I'm not about to let a liberal socialist fuck it up.

I'm not a "good" republican because I see no need to appease the liberal left. A moderate position should does not necessarily imply a lack of conviction in one's position.

[garnet]

Originally Posted by Beestie

Too funny!

I fucking despise the French. As someone famous once said: "France is a nation of whores."

Ouch, the "Ugly American" finally makes an appearance.

Have you ever been to France, Beestie? I have, and it is a beautiful country with great food, and in my opinion, very nice people (and no, I don't speak a lick of French).

Whoever that "someone famous" is that you quote is a complete and total moron. It speaks more of ignorance than patriotism on your part.

[Beestie]

Originally Posted by garnet

Ouch, the "Ugly American" finally makes an appearance.

Have you ever been to France, Beestie?

I was born there and raised there until I was almost 8. I'm an American who hates the French from personal and first hand experience.

But, you are right, France is beautiful. Too bad the French live in it.