Still Undecided? - Page 2

tw · 10-31-2004, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sycamore

Dubya's fate is officially sealed.

The conservative The Economist endorsed Kerry over Bush. Their cover reads "The incompetent or the incoherent?" The picture next to "incompetent"? - obvious.

The New Yorker which never endorses a candidate, this time, endorses Kerry. Too many who do have facts - who do not listen to Rush Limbaugh lies and Fox News spin - are endorsing Kerry. However that is not the opinion of so many on the street.

Unfortunately his incompetence is not enough for many Americans. Estimated is that only 50 or 60% of eligible Americans will vote - still a mild turnout - meaning that extremists votes will have far more influence. Extremists tend to vote at near 100% levels and tend to vote as told. George Jr's closed campaign rally's target these voters betting their dependable votes will be sufficient for reelection.

It should be a slam dunk for Kerry since even torture was authorized at the highest levels of the George Jr administration - finding lawyers to rationalize acts that violate human rights. Performing torture because prisoners did not provide the necessary information. Most all prisoners in both Guantanamo and Abu Ghraid were not guilty and were not associated with al Qaeda or insurgency. No wonder the prisoners were not talking. No wonder so many fictional stories from tortured prisoners resulting in elevated alert levels and no attacks. This administration only hears what they wanted to hear - which is necessary to be incompetent. Authorized torture at the highest levels of George Jr administration is cited by The Economist as "The biggest mistake, though, was one that will haunt America for years to come."

How often do Rush Limbaugh and Fox News condemn all that torture? The conservative Wall Street Journal does. But then some conservative news organizations report the news. Others (Rush Limbaugh and Fox News) simply report spin as Pravda did in communist USSR. Therefore many will still vote for George Jr. A vote for George Jr is an endorsement of torture - and other policies that violate fundamental American values.

wolf · 10-29-2004, 06:56 PM

The skins sometimes rise to the occasion, surprising everyone, even in suck ass seasons.

Washington by 3.

elSicomoro · 10-29-2004, 07:04 PM

Remember that game last year right after his dad died? Change the circumstances some and repeat.

Clodfobble · 10-29-2004, 08:37 PM

Sorry to drag this back to the topic, but I'd be willing to be one of the reasons there are so many so-called "undecided" voters is because people don't want to talk to pollsters.

It's the same reason that there are way fewer signs out this election than normal (at least in my area)--both sides feel very strongly about things, and admitting who you're for could expose you to at best a glare and at worst a keyed car or lawn vandalism. Saying "I'm undecided" is a quick way to get someone out of your face.

Undertoad · 10-30-2004, 08:28 AM

Yabbut at least one of the polls (Survey USA?) is completely phone-automated - as in, press 1 for Bush, 2 for Kerry, 3 for Nader, 4 for Undecided.

Which is also going to lead to some bias that they think they can factor out.

Griff · 10-30-2004, 08:41 AM

I was push polled by a teachers union I was once affiliated with. The options were minimal and naturally Mike wasn't one of them. I suppose I could count as an undecided between Kerry and Badnarik. I really don't see myself voting for someone who voted for the war or the Patriot Act though. Saw F-911 last night. The most effective parts were the scenes of Iraqis living life before the war, the civilian casualties, the American amputees, and the dead GIs mother.

elSicomoro · 10-30-2004, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griff

I really don't see myself voting for someone who voted for the war or the Patriot Act though.

Sen. Robert Byrd was on Fresh Air not too long ago. When Terry Gross asked him about the Patriot Act, he basically said that he regretted supporting it, saying that Congress felt pressure to do something right away in the wake of 9/11, and voila.

Not all of the act is bad, but it definitely needs to be fixed...and I think Kerry--along with the Dems and true conservatives--will fix it.

I think that Kerry is a good candidate, but let's break it down to the simplest of questions: Do you want 4 more years of Bush? Can Kerry do any worse than Bush?

Happy Monkey · 10-30-2004, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sycamore

he basically said that he regretted supporting it, saying that Congress felt pressure to do something right away in the wake of 9/11, and voila.

They didn't even bother reading it. It was something, something had to be voted on, so they voted for it.

Griff · 10-30-2004, 10:06 AM

Ooops thought you meant us not Congress.

Undertoad · 10-30-2004, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Yabbut at least one of the polls (Survey USA?) is completely phone-automated - as in, press 1 for Bush, 2 for Kerry, 3 for Nader, 4 for Undecided.

Which is also going to lead to some bias that they think they can factor out.

Mickey Kaus wonders whether voters would be embarrassed to admit to a Kerry vote to a live pollster. Mystery Pollster says

Quote:

I think Kaus is on to something when he wonders about an "embarrassment" factor that might limit Kerry more on telephone surveys but not on automated, recorded interviews like those done by SurveyUSA and Rasmussen. I think I see evidence of this in the polls by SurveyUSA in Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Michigan. In each of those states, SUSA has Bush matching the RealClearPolitics average but has Kerry running a few points higher. Their surveys always show a higher undecided than most other surveys, and Jay Leve, SurveyUSA's director has always speculated it is because their recorded interview better simulates the solitary experience the voting booth. At the same time, I see an opposite pattern in Iowa, Missouri and Colorado - so perhaps I'm just data mining. I want to watch this closely over the weekend.

Griff · 10-30-2004, 04:24 PM

I think the newly registered voters are going to make the polsters look bad.

"seized" is kinda strong isn't it? He used the tools available just like next week when Bush and Kerry are in several state courts around the country.

Cyber Wolf · 10-30-2004, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Yabbut at least one of the polls (Survey USA?) is completely phone-automated - as in, press 1 for Bush, 2 for Kerry, 3 for Nader, 4 for Undecided.

Waitwaitwait...so if you're rooting for Badnarik, what do you do? Do you hit undecided even though you HAVE decided? That don't smell right.

Happy Monkey · 10-30-2004, 09:48 AM

Standard political idiocy: Something must be done. This is something. Therefore this must be done.

elSicomoro · 10-30-2004, 09:59 AM

???

Griff · 10-30-2004, 10:04 AM

So an historical analogy would be voting for the Communists to keep the Nazis out of power?

10-29-2004, 06:56 PM	#2
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	The skins sometimes rise to the occasion, surprising everyone, even in suck ass seasons. Washington by 3. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

10-30-2004, 08:41 AM	#6
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	I was push polled by a teachers union I was once affiliated with. The options were minimal and naturally Mike wasn't one of them. I suppose I could count as an undecided between Kerry and Badnarik. I really don't see myself voting for someone who voted for the war or the Patriot Act though. Saw F-911 last night. The most effective parts were the scenes of Iraqis living life before the war, the civilian casualties, the American amputees, and the dead GIs mother. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

10-30-2004, 10:06 AM	#9
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	Ooops thought you meant us not Congress. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

10-30-2004, 04:24 PM	#11
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	I think the newly registered voters are going to make the polsters look bad. "seized" is kinda strong isn't it? He used the tools available just like next week when Bush and Kerry are in several state courts around the country. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

10-30-2004, 09:48 AM	#13
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	Standard political idiocy: Something must be done. This is something. Therefore this must be done. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

10-29-2004, 07:04 PM	#3
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	Remember that game last year right after his dad died? Change the circumstances some and repeat.

10-29-2004, 08:37 PM	#4
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	Sorry to drag this back to the topic, but I'd be willing to be one of the reasons there are so many so-called "undecided" voters is because people don't want to talk to pollsters. It's the same reason that there are way fewer signs out this election than normal (at least in my area)--both sides feel very strongly about things, and admitting who you're for could expose you to at best a glare and at worst a keyed car or lawn vandalism. Saying "I'm undecided" is a quick way to get someone out of your face.

10-30-2004, 08:28 AM	#5
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Yabbut at least one of the polls (Survey USA?) is completely phone-automated - as in, press 1 for Bush, 2 for Kerry, 3 for Nader, 4 for Undecided. Which is also going to lead to some bias that they think they can factor out.

10-30-2004, 09:59 AM	#14
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	???

10-30-2004, 10:04 AM	#15
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	So an historical analogy would be voting for the Communists to keep the Nazis out of power? __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

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