Who do you plan to vote for? - Page 2

vsp · 09-17-2004, 06:55 AM

If I vote for Dubya, I'm voting to keep things the way they are now, and to continue down the same path.

If I vote for Kerry, I'm voting to get rid of Dubya, Cheney, Ashcroft, both Powells, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, a variety of likely judicial appointments, the preemptive-war Bush Doctrine, as much of the Patriot Act as possible, and the current national strategies having to do with Iraq, terrorism in general, the economy, public schools, civil liberties and taxation.

Kerry it is. If he gets rid of all of the above, he could spend four years being fed grapes by a legion of Lewinskys and I wouldn't mind.

Happy Monkey · 09-17-2004, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Maybe you don't think it will count but maybe if enough elections have disparity between the popular vote and the electoral college, something will get done about it.

Unfortunately, the disparity will always have just benefitted the ones in power, who will be less than enthusiastic about change.

Kitsune · 09-17-2004, 09:31 AM

Has anyone ever stopped to consider what might happen if Bush gets re-elected? While he is certainly holding back at the moment on many decisions concerning our government, if he comes in for a 2nd term he'll have nothing to lose. And you thought that Patriot Act parts I and II were bad?

Truthfully, I really, strongly dislike Kerry. But there is no way I could conciously vote for a man who seems to have it in his head that American citizens need to have their rights taken away in order to lead a safe life. Bush's plans for our country are currently being held in check by the need to stay popular with as many people as possible in order to get elected a second time. After that, god only knows what he might do.

Patriot Act III?
Iran/Syria?
Military Draft?

Chewbaccus · 09-17-2004, 11:43 AM

Editorial on the legitimacy of polling

I was talking with my friend who cooked up a theory:

Quote:

You consider the whores that the media are, they want to keep you un-informed about what's really going on so that you'll keep watching everyday to see how/of things change. Of course you want to see Kerry up, Bush down and then Bush up and Kerry down. It keeps you watching

*shrug*. Could very well have a point.

TheSnake · 09-17-2004, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radar

The poll should have Badnarik in it. Michael Badnarik is by far the best choice of every candidate running.

Exactly. What is it about personal freedom, free trade, and military discretion that you people don't like?

09-17-2004, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSnake

Exactly. What is it about personal freedom, free trade, and military discretion that you people don't like?

Let's not even go there, O.K.?

glatt · 09-17-2004, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hot_pastrami

This year's election really helps me to identify with Aron Ralston, the dude who had to amputate his own arm to save his life. I feel like I can either hack my arm off with a pocket knife and cut my losses (Kerry), or lay on the canyon floor in misery and despair until I eventually die of exposure (Bush). Sure, nobody actually wants to amputate their own arm, but when you look at the only viable alternative, it suddenly doesn't look so bad...

So in this analogy, is voting for Nader or Badnarik the equivalent of shooting off a flare? There's nobody within a hundred miles to see it, so it's a futile effort.

Undertoad · 09-17-2004, 12:45 PM

Voting for Nader is like shooting off a flare nobody can see. Voting for Bednarik is like yelling furiously at the rock.

09-17-2004, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Voting for Nader is like shooting off a flare nobody can see. Voting for Bednarik is like yelling furiously at the rock.

Voting for Bednarik is to take the role of the tree falling in the forest with no one to hear.

Radar · 09-17-2004, 01:16 PM

Voting for Badnarik is like slapping the face of those in the major parties and saying you want change instead of getting more of the same. Voting for a Republican or a Democrat is like saying "I love how you've wrecked the free country we once had. By all means do more of the same."

hot_pastrami · 09-17-2004, 01:18 PM

The events that occurred at this year's RNC while Bush was in town are probably the best sneak preview of Bush's second term that we'll get. The story is long, but sobering... and definitely worth the read. Also here.

It's clear that Bush's administration treats the Constitutional rights (and privacy) of Americans to be priviledges, which are subject to dismissal without just cause, or notice. This is evidenced by the Patriot Act, Free Speech zones, the Matrix, his ban on photographing the coffins of returning dead soldiers, et cetera ad absurdum. This is to say nothing of his lies, war-mongering, blatant manipulation of the press (including scripted questions), prematurely abandoning the search for bin Laden, and countless other reasons to get this man and his administration out of power.

I really wonder how far he has to go before his supporters start seeing what an unspeakably poor president he is. How many innocent bodies have to pile up? How many rights tdo we have to surrender in the name of safety?

Kitsune · 09-17-2004, 01:54 PM

I really wonder how far he has to go before his supporters start seeing what an unspeakably poor president he is.

The fun part of the RNC speeches: Bush went right back to talking about invading Iraq as if it were a great blow to terrorism, he spoke as if he's made the United States safer since 9/11, and he declared that they were going to stop the evil doing of the democrats as if they controlled both the House and the Senate. And everyone watching ate every bit of it up.

It is as if the past years have been erased, and neither party has taken notice. No WMD? That wasn't the real reason we went. Haven't caught Bin Laden? We don't care to find him at this time. Out of control government spending? That's something only thedemocrats would do! Ask these questions to anyone and they'll dismiss them as old issues, so it really doesn't seem to matter how poor a job Bush does because it has proven so easy to distract the American public. We will never see anyone punished for invading a sovereign nation, no one will ever be held accountable for faulty intelligence reports, and the rights of the people will never be protected for what they're truly worth. In the middle of everything that has happened to us during this term, a smiling George W and John Kerry fight out issues over a battle that took place decades ago, while a war that continues today goes largely unquestioned.

Remember 9/11! ...but ensure that you forget every other day since then.

TheSnake · 09-17-2004, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Voting for Nader is like shooting off a flare nobody can see. Voting for Bednarik is like yelling furiously at the rock.

You're right. I guess we should all just mindlessly follow the crowd. If you believe in the platforms of the Republican or Democatic Parties, then by all means vote for one of the two. However, don't harass someone else for voting for what they believe in. I'll be able to sleep easier knowing I voted for what I believed in rather than settled for something I didn't.

hot_pastrami · 09-17-2004, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSnake

However, don't harass someone else for voting for what they believe in. I'll be able to sleep easier knowing I voted for what I believed in rather than settled for something I didn't.

Here's what I believe... I believe that any vote which is not for Kerry is just as good as a vote for Bush. The sad fact is that a vote for anyone aside from the top two candidates is just noise; So if I don't vote for Kerry, then I am failing to contribute to removing Bush from office. I don't like it, but that's the way it is.

But that's just me.

Undertoad · 09-17-2004, 04:06 PM

I voted for Marrou, Paul, and Browne... slept easy at the time but today I wish I had those back. I was wrong, and have moved on to where I am making a better choice now.

View Poll Results: Who will you vote for in the upcoming election?
Still undecided	2	3.85%
Bush	12	23.08%
Kerry	28	53.85%
Other	8	15.38%
Why bother? I'm not going to vote.	2	3.85%
Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

09-17-2004, 01:16 PM	#25
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	Voting for Badnarik is like slapping the face of those in the major parties and saying you want change instead of getting more of the same. Voting for a Republican or a Democrat is like saying "I love how you've wrecked the free country we once had. By all means do more of the same." __________________ "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin

09-17-2004, 01:18 PM	#26
hot_pastrami I am meaty Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Salt Lake City, UT Posts: 1,119	The events that occurred at this year's RNC while Bush was in town are probably the best sneak preview of Bush's second term that we'll get. The story is long, but sobering... and definitely worth the read. Also here. It's clear that Bush's administration treats the Constitutional rights (and privacy) of Americans to be priviledges, which are subject to dismissal without just cause, or notice. This is evidenced by the Patriot Act, Free Speech zones, the Matrix, his ban on photographing the coffins of returning dead soldiers, et cetera ad absurdum. This is to say nothing of his lies, war-mongering, blatant manipulation of the press (including scripted questions), prematurely abandoning the search for bin Laden, and countless other reasons to get this man and his administration out of power. I really wonder how far he has to go before his supporters start seeing what an unspeakably poor president he is. How many innocent bodies have to pile up? How many rights tdo we have to surrender in the name of safety? __________________ Hot Pastrami!

09-17-2004, 06:55 AM	#16
vsp Syndrome of a Down Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: West Chester Posts: 1,367	If I vote for Dubya, I'm voting to keep things the way they are now, and to continue down the same path. If I vote for Kerry, I'm voting to get rid of Dubya, Cheney, Ashcroft, both Powells, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, a variety of likely judicial appointments, the preemptive-war Bush Doctrine, as much of the Patriot Act as possible, and the current national strategies having to do with Iraq, terrorism in general, the economy, public schools, civil liberties and taxation. Kerry it is. If he gets rid of all of the above, he could spend four years being fed grapes by a legion of Lewinskys and I wouldn't mind.

09-17-2004, 09:31 AM	#18
Kitsune still eats dirt Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 3,031	Has anyone ever stopped to consider what might happen if Bush gets re-elected? While he is certainly holding back at the moment on many decisions concerning our government, if he comes in for a 2nd term he'll have nothing to lose. And you thought that Patriot Act parts I and II were bad? Truthfully, I really, strongly dislike Kerry. But there is no way I could conciously vote for a man who seems to have it in his head that American citizens need to have their rights taken away in order to lead a safe life. Bush's plans for our country are currently being held in check by the need to stay popular with as many people as possible in order to get elected a second time. After that, god only knows what he might do. Patriot Act III? Iran/Syria? Military Draft?

09-17-2004, 12:45 PM	#23
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Voting for Nader is like shooting off a flare nobody can see. Voting for Bednarik is like yelling furiously at the rock.

09-17-2004, 01:54 PM	#27
Kitsune still eats dirt Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 3,031	I really wonder how far he has to go before his supporters start seeing what an unspeakably poor president he is. The fun part of the RNC speeches: Bush went right back to talking about invading Iraq as if it were a great blow to terrorism, he spoke as if he's made the United States safer since 9/11, and he declared that they were going to stop the evil doing of the democrats as if they controlled both the House and the Senate. And everyone watching ate every bit of it up. It is as if the past years have been erased, and neither party has taken notice. No WMD? That wasn't the real reason we went. Haven't caught Bin Laden? We don't care to find him at this time. Out of control government spending? That's something only thedemocrats would do! Ask these questions to anyone and they'll dismiss them as old issues, so it really doesn't seem to matter how poor a job Bush does because it has proven so easy to distract the American public. We will never see anyone punished for invading a sovereign nation, no one will ever be held accountable for faulty intelligence reports, and the rights of the people will never be protected for what they're truly worth. In the middle of everything that has happened to us during this term, a smiling George W and John Kerry fight out issues over a battle that took place decades ago, while a war that continues today goes largely unquestioned. Remember 9/11! ...but ensure that you forget every other day since then.

09-17-2004, 04:06 PM	#30
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	I voted for Marrou, Paul, and Browne... slept easy at the time but today I wish I had those back. I was wrong, and have moved on to where I am making a better choice now.

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