Kerry's Campaign - Page 2

garnet · 09-07-2004, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123

said the individual who wasn't born yet and is unlikely to ever hold a weapon on another person.

What does this have to do with the argument Jag is making? You are personally attacking HIM rather than debating the points he brought up. Not cool.

jaguar · 09-07-2004, 02:06 PM

I've spent enough time in Vietnam not know what it would have been like and spent enough time looking at what came out of it to know that anyone that went there should feel a deep sense of guilt to what they inflicted on the poor souls that lived there. Maybe not everyone was involved but clearly it was systematic and common to say the least. Mai Lai was one of hundreds of similar incidents, not to mention things like Agent Orange (ever seen a kid with his chin fused to his breastbone? look him in the eye and tell him they served honorably) and the entire Phoenix operation.

lookout123 · 09-07-2004, 02:11 PM

i will tell anyone who wore the uniform, picked up their weapon and did their job without deilberately harming innocents that they served honorably. it is the job of young men (and now women) to fight and die for what they are told. to besmirch their good name because of a calling you couldn't possibly hope to understand is wrong.

Happy Monkey · 09-07-2004, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123

it is the job of young men (and now women) to fight and die for what they are told.

Precisely. That's why Kerry was so pissed off at the US government, and not the soldiers.

jdbutler · 09-07-2004, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaguar

I've spent enough time in Vietnam not know what it would have been like and spent enough time looking at what came out of it to know that anyone that went there should feel a deep sense of guilt to what they inflicted on the poor souls that lived there. Maybe not everyone was involved but clearly it was systematic and common to say the least. Mai Lai was one of hundreds of similar incidents, not to mention things like Agent Orange (ever seen a kid with his chin fused to his breastbone? look him in the eye and tell him they served honorably) and the entire Phoenix operation.

For all of the Vietnam Veterans and especially myself, YOU DON"T KNOW SHIT! Systematic and common? You, sir, are out of your Socialist mind.
Please name and document at least a few of "the other hundreds" of incidents besides the Mai Lai abberation.
Oh, And Agent Orange did not discriminate on newborns, just ask a few of my buddies who are still alive and passed their genes on to thier kids.
And when the Wahabist Muslims start terrorizing all of Europe, don't call on our troops to bail your sorry asses out again.

TheSnake · 09-07-2004, 02:09 PM

Kerry's campaign is struggling, because he has yet to clearly articulate differences between him and Bush. I think the upcoming debates will help him. If he performs the same way he did against Paul O'Neil, he'll probably get a boost.

Happy Monkey · 09-07-2004, 02:11 PM

Kerry didn't say everyone was involved. He said it was widespread, and related a number of firsthand accounts to Congress.

wolf · 09-08-2004, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Kerry didn't say everyone was involved. He said it was widespread, and related a number of firsthand accounts to Congress.

I believe that Mr. Kerry testified to Congress about events that he never witnessed.

what's that word I remember seeing in Black's? ... HEARSAY. that's the one.

As far as the "V" device on his medal ... one letter is a typo. A phrase is not a typo.

I don't think that kerry has released his actual DD214's to the press or to the public ... or am I wrong? It's late, I'm tired, and too lazy to check The Smoking Gun right now ...

jaguar · 09-07-2004, 02:37 PM

They're already trying in Europe, I don't see how the US could possibly help there, they can't seem to protect themselves very well let alone anyone else. Not sure how the socialist tag comes into it. Common? Hell yea, particularly in the DMZ, 'freefire zones', seems the general idea was if it moved, shoot it. Spent plenty of time talking to older types in villages inland from Da Nang. Thanh Phong ring a bell? Countless incidents, particularly around '69 in the delta when they were herding village after village into saigon. Abberation? It's well known a policy of shoot first ask questions later was in place.

jaguar · 09-07-2004, 06:45 PM

No, lookout's point is just but I don't think it's entirely relevant. Sure I haven't and unless something very odd happens, won't serve in any standing army (hell I've just dodged the Swiss one and the chances of combat duty there were rather low) but I don't see how that affects what happened in Vietnam. I'm sure some if not many soldiers did serve honourably but collectively, what the US military did to that country is abominable, inexcusable and to do it in the name of freedom and democracy, disgusting. Killings, rapes, tortures, summary executions, destroying entire communities, poisoning entire ecosystems and if Kerry came back an denounced his fellow soldiers for perpetrating those crimes, good on him.

Happy Monkey · 09-08-2004, 07:48 AM

If you believe that Bush's people weren't involved with the Swift Boat guys, you're far more trusting than is healthy in politics. And if you think that the Swifties got organized in response to Kerry's mentioning his service, you weren't paying attention. They were writing their book and attempting to recruit (sometimes fraudulently) members long before Kerry said he was reporting for duty.

glatt · 09-08-2004, 07:58 AM

Kerry needs to hire some comedians to write jokes for him.

The Republicans are experts at throwing mud with a smile on their face. If you make it sound like a joke when you smear someone, the message gets across and the public doesn't think you are an asshole.

Kerry needs to work on that as he smears Bush.

jaguar · 09-08-2004, 09:31 AM

The Swift Boat thing has Karl Roves dirty little paws all over it. I wish, wholeheartedly that someone would drive the cockroach out to the middle of nowhere and cap one in the back of his head, it'd be the biggest favour you could do to world peace at this point in time.

smoothmoniker · 09-08-2004, 10:48 AM

"Hold your principles tightly, your issues loosely, and your candidates in contempt."

Happy Monkey · 09-08-2004, 11:27 AM

Kerry isn't negative about the country. He's negative about the direction Bush is pushing it.

09-07-2004, 02:06 PM	#2
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	I've spent enough time in Vietnam not know what it would have been like and spent enough time looking at what came out of it to know that anyone that went there should feel a deep sense of guilt to what they inflicted on the poor souls that lived there. Maybe not everyone was involved but clearly it was systematic and common to say the least. Mai Lai was one of hundreds of similar incidents, not to mention things like Agent Orange (ever seen a kid with his chin fused to his breastbone? look him in the eye and tell him they served honorably) and the entire Phoenix operation. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

09-07-2004, 02:11 PM	#3
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	i will tell anyone who wore the uniform, picked up their weapon and did their job without deilberately harming innocents that they served honorably. it is the job of young men (and now women) to fight and die for what they are told. to besmirch their good name because of a calling you couldn't possibly hope to understand is wrong. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

09-07-2004, 02:11 PM	#7
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	Kerry didn't say everyone was involved. He said it was widespread, and related a number of firsthand accounts to Congress. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

09-07-2004, 02:37 PM	#9
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	They're already trying in Europe, I don't see how the US could possibly help there, they can't seem to protect themselves very well let alone anyone else. Not sure how the socialist tag comes into it. Common? Hell yea, particularly in the DMZ, 'freefire zones', seems the general idea was if it moved, shoot it. Spent plenty of time talking to older types in villages inland from Da Nang. Thanh Phong ring a bell? Countless incidents, particularly around '69 in the delta when they were herding village after village into saigon. Abberation? It's well known a policy of shoot first ask questions later was in place. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

09-07-2004, 06:45 PM	#10
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	No, lookout's point is just but I don't think it's entirely relevant. Sure I haven't and unless something very odd happens, won't serve in any standing army (hell I've just dodged the Swiss one and the chances of combat duty there were rather low) but I don't see how that affects what happened in Vietnam. I'm sure some if not many soldiers did serve honourably but collectively, what the US military did to that country is abominable, inexcusable and to do it in the name of freedom and democracy, disgusting. Killings, rapes, tortures, summary executions, destroying entire communities, poisoning entire ecosystems and if Kerry came back an denounced his fellow soldiers for perpetrating those crimes, good on him. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

09-07-2004, 02:09 PM	#6
TheSnake Resident President Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 83	Kerry's campaign is struggling, because he has yet to clearly articulate differences between him and Bush. I think the upcoming debates will help him. If he performs the same way he did against Paul O'Neil, he'll probably get a boost.

09-08-2004, 07:48 AM	#11
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	If you believe that Bush's people weren't involved with the Swift Boat guys, you're far more trusting than is healthy in politics. And if you think that the Swifties got organized in response to Kerry's mentioning his service, you weren't paying attention. They were writing their book and attempting to recruit (sometimes fraudulently) members long before Kerry said he was reporting for duty. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

09-08-2004, 07:58 AM	#12
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	Kerry needs to hire some comedians to write jokes for him. The Republicans are experts at throwing mud with a smile on their face. If you make it sound like a joke when you smear someone, the message gets across and the public doesn't think you are an asshole. Kerry needs to work on that as he smears Bush.

09-08-2004, 09:31 AM	#13
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	The Swift Boat thing has Karl Roves dirty little paws all over it. I wish, wholeheartedly that someone would drive the cockroach out to the middle of nowhere and cap one in the back of his head, it'd be the biggest favour you could do to world peace at this point in time. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

09-08-2004, 10:48 AM	#14
smoothmoniker to live and die in LA Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,090	"Hold your principles tightly, your issues loosely, and your candidates in contempt." __________________ to live and die in LA

09-08-2004, 11:27 AM	#15
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	Kerry isn't negative about the country. He's negative about the direction Bush is pushing it. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

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