pick your posion - Page 2

Catwoman · 06-25-2004, 11:03 AM

Me an' you eh jag, me an' you. The other's don't get it. Lets go runaway somewhere and develop a secret code eh eh wink wink nudge nudge

jaguar · 06-25-2004, 11:17 AM

I didn't load the question and try and see how many came to that result and there are plenty of counter-arguments, it's all very interesting.

06-25-2004, 04:34 PM

Cat and Jag, your secret's safe with me. Obviously we are all prisoners of the dominent paradigm of our society and our time. It can be extremely difficult to "think outside the box," especially if your particular box is all nice and comfy and lined with down feathers. It takes great imagination and courage to see clearly when your society has brought you up with blinders on from the moment of birth on. Even if you take the blinders off, your eyes may have lost the ability to detect things in their peripheral field of vision.

A democracy of visually impaired people is far worse than a dictatorship of those with clear vision. At least in the latter case, the people can see that there is a problem and act to overthrow the dictatorship. In the former case, the members of the democracy remain imprisoned because they cannot even see the bars of their cage.

xoxoxoBruce · 06-25-2004, 05:20 PM

If you go looking for trouble you'll find it. Better to live your life and let others do the same.

06-25-2004, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
If you go looking for trouble you'll find it. Better to live your life and let others do the same.

In other words, take the "blue pill" and go to sleep. But what do you do about those damn nightmares that keep intruding upon your dreams?

Catwoman · 06-28-2004, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by marichiko
In other words, take the "blue pill" and go to sleep. But what do you do about those damn nightmares that keep intruding upon your dreams?

Perhaps I should outline an argument for the blue pill (not saying I agree with this, just raising it for discussion):

Let us assume that the ultimate goal in life is happiness (however you define this). Look at the people you know who are most happy. Chances are they're living a relatively simple life, don't question things and are happy with what has been ascribed to them (by 'god' or by self). True questioners know what is wrong with this world and it bothers them. I know I'm not the only one to have cried at a news story of death and suffering, and the knowledge that I am powerless against it. If ignorance is bliss, and life is a journey toward fulfilment, then the most happy are by definition the most ignorant.

Ergo the way any society is governed is irrelevant. People can be ignorant in freedom and behind bars. Maybe they know more than we think.

06-28-2004, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Catwoman

Perhaps I should outline an argument for the blue pill (not saying I agree with this, just raising it for discussion):

Let us assume that the ultimate goal in life is happiness (however you define this). Look at the people you know who are most happy. Chances are they're living a relatively simple life, don't question things and are happy with what has been ascribed to them (by 'god' or by self). True questioners know what is wrong with this world and it bothers them. I know I'm not the only one to have cried at a news story of death and suffering, and the knowledge that I am powerless against it. If ignorance is bliss, and life is a journey toward fulfilment, then the most happy are by definition the most ignorant.

Ergo the way any society is governed is irrelevant. People can be ignorant in freedom and behind bars. Maybe they know more than we think.

Sure, ignorance is bliss. I cried when 9/11 happened; I cried at the news of the Oklahoma City bombings; I cried when the US sent troops to the Gulf first time around. I tried turning off te news, but reality kept intruding anyhow. I became a close friend of a Gulf War Vet, honored for his heroism, and fighting against a dishonorable discharge from the army because he had developd PTSD. I met a man struggling under the burden of having 5 of his 9 other brothers develope schizophrenia, etc., etc.

It is our very awareness and concern for others which helps to define our humanity. Sure, we can numb out the reality, but I think this also means we only get to lead half lives, and we numb out the joys, as well.

Catwoman · 06-28-2004, 09:45 AM

Is not joy defined by our experience of pain? Can we know one without the other? If not, we may as well remain ignorant.

[/devils advocate]

View Poll Results: well?
Bring on the jackboots!	3	17.65%
Democracy or death!	14	82.35%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

06-25-2004, 11:03 AM	#16
Catwoman stalking a Tom Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: on the edge of the english channel Posts: 1,000	Me an' you eh jag, me an' you. The other's don't get it. Lets go runaway somewhere and develop a secret code eh eh wink wink nudge nudge __________________ I've decided I'm not going to have a signature anymore.

06-25-2004, 11:17 AM	#17
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	I didn't load the question and try and see how many came to that result and there are plenty of counter-arguments, it's all very interesting. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

06-25-2004, 05:20 PM	#19
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	If you go looking for trouble you'll find it. Better to live your life and let others do the same. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

06-28-2004, 09:45 AM	#23
Catwoman stalking a Tom Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: on the edge of the english channel Posts: 1,000	Is not joy defined by our experience of pain? Can we know one without the other? If not, we may as well remain ignorant. [/devils advocate] __________________ I've decided I'm not going to have a signature anymore.

06-25-2004, 04:34 PM	#18
marichiko Guest Posts: n/a	Cat and Jag, your secret's safe with me. Obviously we are all prisoners of the dominent paradigm of our society and our time. It can be extremely difficult to "think outside the box," especially if your particular box is all nice and comfy and lined with down feathers. It takes great imagination and courage to see clearly when your society has brought you up with blinders on from the moment of birth on. Even if you take the blinders off, your eyes may have lost the ability to detect things in their peripheral field of vision. A democracy of visually impaired people is far worse than a dictatorship of those with clear vision. At least in the latter case, the people can see that there is a problem and act to overthrow the dictatorship. In the former case, the members of the democracy remain imprisoned because they cannot even see the bars of their cage.

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