How Do I Liberate Thee? Let Me Count the Ways

[Radar]

Of course, there is the other 95% to consider. They would certainly take up arms against you, eh?

No. As I said, those dissatisfied with the government are in the majority and it only took 5% of the population of America to overthrow the English. The others did not take up arms against the true American patriots who were fighting for freedom just as they wouldn't now. In fact very few of those in the military right now would fire on Americans fighting for freedom and trying to make government adhere to the limits on their powers in the Constitution if ordered to do so.

If any free country such as Radar posits ever existed, it would be assailed constantly on all sides by every radical faction on the planet, seeking to overturn it for either appearing weak or being too open and liberal.

It did exist, and I'm living in the same location where it existed. The country I describe was right here in America and it turns out we weren't attacked on all sides because we're neutral. Just as Switzerland hasn't been attacked even though they're surrounded by war.

[Undertoad]

What was the time frame you were thinking of as representing a free country?

[Radar]

I'm not sure I understand the question. I intend to change government peacefully from within the system as long as it can still be changed peacefully from within the system, but the government is quickly closing that door. I don't intend to take up arms until it's the only way to return government to its Constitutional limits. Until then I will continue to educate people and to try to bring about change peacefully and without bloodshed. So I guess the timeline is all in the hands of the government.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

[Undertoad]

No, I mean, which years of the past US represent the free country you feel was free by your definition?

[Radar]

For the most part the US Government stuck to the Constitution for the first 100 years. I'd say things really fell apart in 1913 when the federal reserve act was enacted and the income tax amendment was fraudently added to the Constitution. But I suppose the first time the Constitution was really abused badly was in 1861 by Lincoln. He murdered thousands upon thousands of Americans and those who had left the union legally. He also created income taxes, suspended habeus corpus, etc.

[Undertoad]

OK. So to start, slavery is just a weird blip that doesn't count because it's not in the Constitution, because those people weren't considered people and therefore it's all just a re-do somehow, right?

Women didn't participate in your pet process - that's gotta be worth an asterisk in your thinking somewhere?

Trying to figure out how this plain-speaking document that protects freedom could have these gigantic holes in it. Holes so large they failed to protect the rights of the majority of people.

[lumberjim]

absolute freedom doesn't work

how could it?

[OnyxCougar]

Originally posted by Radar
[major snip]
ARTICLE.

Immigrants from all over the world built the United States of America and non-dangerous immigrants will always be welcomed to America without limitations.

Please tell me what a non-dangerous immigrant is and how we're going to pay for our children's education in this hap hap happy world of yours?

[elSicomoro]

You'll have the money to send them to the school of your choice, b/c you won't have to pay income tax.

Radar needs to meet my friend Reality too...

[OnyxCougar]

So now I have to pay for my children to go to school. OK.

6 months ago, I had a full time job, I wasn't paying income tax because I am tax-exempt and I was living in Nevada, a tax-free state.

I was still considered poor enough to live in "Section 8" housing and qualified for food stamps. I was making $12 an hour.

How was I supposed to afford a decent school for my kids?

[OnyxCougar]

By the way, Radar....

You keep holding up Switzerland as an example of neutrality, and have cited their "military preparedness", but in your articles you mention the US armed forces are to be 100% voluntary.

Switzerland has a mandatory service requirement. This means that all males, age 20 and up have formal training using weapons, etc.

I have much less problems with when talking about "everybody gets all the guns they want, on demand," if EVERY able bodied male were formally trained in it's use.

And these articles of yours are going to create havoc. I don't see any changes to the justice system, changes that would have to be implented when Billy Joe Jim Bob goes on a rampage and mows down the local elementary schoolyard that I'm now paying for my kid to go to.

[juju]

Originally posted by Radar
For the most part the US Government stuck to the Constitution for the first 100 years. I'd say things really fell apart in 1913 when the federal reserve act was enacted and the income tax amendment was fraudently added to the Constitution.

One thing I do remember from history class is that the first 100 years were the most corrupt.

[Radar]

OK. So to start, slavery is just a weird blip that doesn't count because it's not in the Constitution, because those people weren't considered people and therefore it's all just a re-do somehow, right?

Women didn't participate in your pet process - that's gotta be worth an asterisk in your thinking somewhere?

Trying to figure out how this plain-speaking document that protects freedom could have these gigantic holes in it. Holes so large they failed to protect the rights of the majority of people.

Times change and the Constitution changed. All I expect is for the Government to abide by the Constitution and the limits on their powers within the Constitution. So if we forced government to start over and stick to the Constitution it would be the current Constitution minus the 16 amendment which was fraudently added.

Please tell me what a non-dangerous immigrant is and how we're going to pay for our children's education in this hap hap happy world of yours?

A non-dangerous immigrant is one which doesnt' pose a danger. One that isn't a criminal, doesn't have a strong history of ties with terrorist organizations, etc. But any normal working person from another country without some sort of violent criminal past should be allowed in.

You'll have the money to send them to the school of your choice, b/c you won't have to pay income tax.

That's right. If you weren't paying income tax, you'd be able to send your children to schools 10 times better than public schools at half of the cost. You'd afford the best healthcare, have a better retirement, and have money left over to give the your favorite non-profit charities which would get more money to those in need than welfare.

Radar needs to meet my friend Reality too...

If you doubt any of what I said, reality is not only your friend, you've never even met.

So now I have to pay for my children to go to school. OK.

Yes, now you pay 1/2 of what you were paying before. And if you can't afford to send children to school on your meager earnings, perhaps you shouldn't have children.

You keep holding up Switzerland as an example of neutrality, and have cited their "military preparedness", but in your articles you mention the US armed forces are to be 100% voluntary.

I would have mentioned that, but it's not the truth. America still has conscription during times of war. A draft. I believe in voluntary military service, but think all citizens should do their duty voluntarily. I'd also be for using government to encourage gun ownership.

And these articles of yours are going to create havoc. I don't see any changes to the justice system, changes that would have to be implented when Billy Joe Jim Bob goes on a rampage and mows down the local elementary schoolyard that I'm now paying for my kid to go to

What changes do we need in the justice system other than removing laws that keep non-violent non-criminals in jail and let genuinely dangerous criminals out of jail early to make room? Once we empty the jails of non-violent drug offenders, prostitutes, and those in jail on other consensual activities, we'll have plenty of room for Billy Jo Jim Bob to stay in jail a long time when he goes on a Rampage. What do you think should be done? And you're fooling yourself if you don't think you're already paying for your kids to go to school. The only difference is in my situation, they might actually learn something which could put them ahead of you.

One thing I do remember from history class is that the first 100 years were the most corrupt.

Then you didn't learn much in History. The last 30 years have been more corrupt than all the other years combined. Just the Bush administration has violated the Constitution more than all previous administrations combined.

[juju]

Well, I suppose which decade was the "most" corrupt is a matter of opinion. But I guess my point was that there has been corruption in the U.S. government almost since the very beginning. I think your claim that the Constitution wasn't violated much until 1913 is highly unlikely. That is, if one takes your strict, fanatical view about the Constitution.

[Undertoad]

Let's go back then to the notion that no "free" country exists on the planet and that this is the fault of the US government's use of military power. Howzat again?