Progressive Islam - Page 2

juju · 08-11-2003, 02:21 PM

Like, for example, L. Ron Hubbard.

darclauz · 08-11-2003, 08:47 PM

Quote:

[i] It has become dominated by articulate but intellectually vacuous bullies. I think the term 'right wing bullshitters' kinda sums it up really. [/b]

and the sacred cow you rode in on, Whit.

darclauz · 08-11-2003, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
I don't think any of them qualify as con artists simply because they didn't benefit from their work. If fact most suffered from it. The true con men are the ones that *organized* these teachings into religions for fun and profit. Once there is a profit then they're a target and tool for every con man that comes along.

well, crap.

what am i gonna do with my authentic and recently purchased prayer stick?

elSicomoro · 08-11-2003, 08:55 PM

For the record, I don't think the people I mentioned are scam artists...they certainly could have been, but based on my knowledge of them, I'd say no.

Juju, it really depends on how you look at each of them. You could take what's out there in terms of evidence, and argue it either way.

elSicomoro · 08-11-2003, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by darclauz
what am i gonna do with my authentic and recently purchased prayer stick?

Put it on eBay.

Whit · 08-12-2003, 03:22 AM

Quote:

and the sacred cow you rode in on, Whit.

     Feh, there are no sacred cows. At least not to non-religious types like me. Besides, if you're not ready to discuss something, don't bring it up on a discussion board. Seems kinda obvious now that I read it...

xoxoxoBruce · 08-12-2003, 06:09 PM

Quote:

what am i gonna do with my authentic and recently purchased prayer stic

I'm sure that was a rhetorical question, wasn't it? 'Cause if it wasn't....heh, heh, heh...

warch · 08-12-2003, 08:04 PM

Hey, that Joseph Smith guy sounds like a con man to me. Whoo! Thats one helluva narrative, meta or otherwise.

Hey thread starter, buck up. That your cited Islamic practitioners seem to have at least acknowleged individual human rights and freedoms, with the emphasis on individual, is good news. Now they need to effect cultural progress to stop that honor killing.

headsplice · 08-13-2003, 11:24 AM

Anyone know how many different streams of thought flow through the 'Muslim world?'
I assume, probably because of my modern-western bias, that there are as many splinters in Islam as there are in Christianity, there's just a few that are somewhat more vocal about their beliefs (and by somewhat, I mean shouting so loud they can't hear anyone/thing else).
Is this true? Are there schisms between different parts of Islam? If not, who wants to nail some theses on a mosque door and start some?

hot_pastrami · 08-13-2003, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by warch
Hey, that Joseph Smith guy sounds like a con man to me. Whoo! Thats one helluva narrative, meta or otherwise.

Urge to comment, rising...

If it wouldn't be a blatant thread hijacking, I might have much to say on this topic.

08-13-2003, 11:37 AM

Heh. Yes, there are many different groups that all consider themselves Muslims. The most obvious (and the one that garners the most media attention right now) is the Shi'a vs Sunni schism. (Most media sources call it Shi'ite; this is no longer correct, in the same manner that Israelite is no longer correct to describe an Israeli. Shi'a get offended if you refer to them as Shi'ite.)

wolf · 08-13-2003, 01:11 PM

Just picked a page at random ... (yeah, I have a Koran. And a Bible, and a Book of Mormon, and some Eastern karmic stuff ... us witches tend to be well read, right El?) I was not specifically looking for this type of reference. Just did that flip the book open and point thing.

Quote:

The Koran
Al-Hijr (15:1-5)

In the Name of God, the compassionate, the Merciful
Alif lam ra. These are the verses of a Book, the Glorious Koran:

The day will surely come when those who disbelieve will wish that they were Muslims. Let them feast and make merry; and let their hopes beguile them. They shall learn.

Never have We destroyed a nation whose term of life was not ordained beforehand. Men cannot forestall their doom, nor can they retard it.

Although a 'softer' interpretation is certainly possible, sounds kind of ominous to me. (as is the capitalization of "We" in the second paragraph. Most religious texts capitalize the name of their deity, but this is the first time I've seen a reference to the followers capitalized.)

My take:

Everyone is going to want to be a muslim, whether they like it or not. They can have their fun now along with their false beliefs, but god's gonna spank 'em on the ass soon enough.

If any nation destroyed by Muslim conquerers, it was ordained by god and fate beforehand ... anyone have a different take on this?

xoxoxoBruce · 08-13-2003, 04:48 PM

Sounds to me like "We" can do no wrong. Whatever the hell "We" do is OK because "We" were preordained to do it.
That's pretty scary.

wolf · 08-14-2003, 01:04 AM

religion of peace ... after everyone else is converted or dead.

warch · 08-14-2003, 10:45 AM

"I'm the chosen people!"
"No! I'm the chosen people!"
"Nuh uh! I'm the chosen!"
"Get out! You aren't chosen! I am!
"How dare you!"
"How dare YOU!"
"Huh! Just wait, you'll be sorry."
"yeah right, your unchosen self will by WAY sorrier."
"Oh yeah?"
"yeah!"

There is a fall class I saw posted today that purports to explore the possibilities, probabilty of an Islamic "reformation". Looking at internal change and modernization- like the people our threadstarted chose to highlight. Change is good.

08-13-2003, 11:24 AM	#24
headsplice Relaxed Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 676	Anyone know how many different streams of thought flow through the 'Muslim world?' I assume, probably because of my modern-western bias, that there are as many splinters in Islam as there are in Christianity, there's just a few that are somewhat more vocal about their beliefs (and by somewhat, I mean shouting so loud they can't hear anyone/thing else). Is this true? Are there schisms between different parts of Islam? If not, who wants to nail some theses on a mosque door and start some? __________________ Don't Panic

08-13-2003, 04:48 PM	#28
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Sounds to me like "We" can do no wrong. Whatever the hell "We" do is OK because "We" were preordained to do it. That's pretty scary. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

08-14-2003, 01:04 AM	#29
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	religion of peace ... after everyone else is converted or dead. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

08-11-2003, 02:21 PM	#16
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	Like, for example, L. Ron Hubbard.

08-11-2003, 08:55 PM	#19
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	For the record, I don't think the people I mentioned are scam artists...they certainly could have been, but based on my knowledge of them, I'd say no. Juju, it really depends on how you look at each of them. You could take what's out there in terms of evidence, and argue it either way.

08-12-2003, 08:04 PM	#23
warch lurkin old school Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,796	Hey, that Joseph Smith guy sounds like a con man to me. Whoo! Thats one helluva narrative, meta or otherwise. Hey thread starter, buck up. That your cited Islamic practitioners seem to have at least acknowleged individual human rights and freedoms, with the emphasis on individual, is good news. Now they need to effect cultural progress to stop that honor killing.

08-13-2003, 11:37 AM	#26
dave Guest Posts: n/a	Heh. Yes, there are many different groups that all consider themselves Muslims. The most obvious (and the one that garners the most media attention right now) is the Shi'a vs Sunni schism. (Most media sources call it Shi'ite; this is no longer correct, in the same manner that Israelite is no longer correct to describe an Israeli. Shi'a get offended if you refer to them as Shi'ite.)

08-14-2003, 10:45 AM	#30
warch lurkin old school Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,796	"I'm the chosen people!" "No! I'm the chosen people!" "Nuh uh! I'm the chosen!" "Get out! You aren't chosen! I am! "How dare you!" "How dare YOU!" "Huh! Just wait, you'll be sorry." "yeah right, your unchosen self will by WAY sorrier." "Oh yeah?" "yeah!" There is a fall class I saw posted today that purports to explore the possibilities, probabilty of an Islamic "reformation". Looking at internal change and modernization- like the people our threadstarted chose to highlight. Change is good.

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