What should a community/nation/state (government) provide for citizens?

[Undertoad]

Originally Posted by henry quirk

Is that what we have, toad?

Yes.

I look at your rep gov, your democracy, and I see grasping hands barely kept in check by other, equally grasping, hands.

By design.

You enshrine the grasping hands of 'the mob', claim it's 'proper' cuz 'we the people are the organizers'...more of that 'finer clay'.

Yes I do. It's We The People. It's us man. You and me. Same clay in every person.

The best way is to let everyone vote. The people form their own government. Constitutionally limited with super-majorities required for major changes. That is ideal. Anything else is unthinkable, really.

How great an idea was that? It's amazingly stable. Here's a list of sovereign nations by their date of formation. By birth of current form of government or establishment of sovereignty, the US is the 2nd oldest. It's behind San Marino.

[henry quirk]

I'm all for the nightwatchman, toad.

But what we got now is far beyond the minimum and narrow night watchman, all-embracing, all-encompassing, all-smothering is what we live under now

'The People': a vast throng, a herd, a sea of flesh to drown in.

[henry quirk]

"If I put my faith in me I will have to settle for less because even my best efforts are a pisshole in a snowbank compared to the power of the collective we."

...I give up.

[Undertoad]

Naw. It's not bad. You can visit many fine national monuments and take as many photographs as you like. Most people are honest and friendly.

They opened a casino near me, although I don't go that often. Some people get weed legally now! I think New Jersey will have legal weed next. And, they finally allowed wine sales in grocery stores in my state last year.

Pretty much everyone has a job who wants one, except my friend Jeff who has a criminal record. I don't know what Jeff is going to do but he does keep active on Facebook.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Pretty much everyone has a job who wants one

Ehh... kinda. There's a whole ton of people right now with only 32-hour/week jobs because no one wants to provide healthcare. My stepdaughter straight up told her employer, "I'm on my parents' plan, I'll sign whatever you need to get around it, please just give me more hours and skip the healthcare" and they said no. Plus, minimum wage is not currently high enough to pay rent-with-roommates, at least in our area, and the gig economy has people constantly worrying where their next deposit is coming from, which is not a mental state a lot of people can handle.

I'm optimistic. I think in another couple of years we'll have single-payer, and a boost in the minimum wage. What would really help is if they'd finally tack minimum wage to inflation and a regional economic benchmark, so it could be different in Topeka vs. NYC but still increased automatically without this painful legislative back-and-forth every few years.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

What would really help is if they'd finally tack minimum wage to inflation and a regional economic benchmark, so it could be different in Topeka vs. NYC but still increased automatically without this painful legislative back-and-forth every few years.

I wish it was few.

[henry quirk]

Happy,

You're comfortable being governed (regulated and directed): good on you.

I'm not.

Let's just leave it at that.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by henry quirk

Let's just leave it at that.

And here I thought you started this thread to discuss ideas.

[henry quirk]

Why I started the thread is my business, as your participation in the thread is yours.

Read my opening post: the request is simple, direct, and does not include any promise of 'discussion'.

Disappointing, yes (cuz I'm such a lively conversationalist, witty and compelling), but it shouldn't be surprising (cuz, at heart, I'm a [witty and compelling] bastid).

[xoxoxoBruce]

On the upside, a minarchy would make a huge cut in air pollution which would slow global warming, climate change. and increasingly severe weather.
Since there wouldn't be any roads suitable for more than horses and mules, all the cars and trucks would be parked. It would also advance science developing flying cars.

[Undertoad]

a minarchy would make a huge cut in air pollution

~ no ~

From what I read, burning wood and dung is probably carbon-neutral (depending on what you do with the forests to get that wood; historically, we just cut it all down) but creates more pollutants, which make life unlivable locally. And creates airborne black carbon soot which harms, amongst other things, the Arctic ice and which many people consider responsible for a good bit of climate change too. It's not sustainable for 7 Billion people.


"Our future if we treat climate change as the only problem that needs solving: more climate change"

[henry quirk]

"I've had horses with the hay pitching and shit shoveling that goes with it. Done plenty of walking too... uphill both ways some times."

Me too, then and now.

Me: I enjoy the effort.

*shrug*

No worries, Bruce, there's never gonna be a 'night watchman' or a Golgothan-style anarchy in America.

Far too many want to be governed (regulated & directed) and far too many are more than happy to govern (regulate & direct).

No, your future is secure...you'll be well-tended to, provided for, sheltered, insulated, 'educated & entertained'.

Good on you.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

~ no ~

From what I read, burning wood and dung is probably carbon-neutral (depending on what you do with the forests to get that wood; historically, we just cut it all down) but creates more pollutants, which make life unlivable locally. And creates airborne black carbon soot which harms, amongst other things, the Arctic ice and which many people consider responsible for a good bit of climate change too. It's not sustainable for 7 Billion people.

Wouldn't happen because at least the country would starve to death before that happens.

Originally Posted by henry quirk

"I've had horses with the hay pitching and shit shoveling that goes with it. Done plenty of walking too... uphill both ways some times."

Me too, then and now.

Me: I enjoy the effort.

*shrug*

No worries, Bruce, there's never gonna be a 'night watchman' or a Golgothan-style anarchy in America.

Far too many want to be governed (regulated & directed) and far too many are more than happy to govern (regulate & direct).

No, your future is secure...you'll be well-tended to, provided for, sheltered, insulated, 'educated & entertained'.

Good on you.

I'm not worrying about that happening here, I was just thinking about what it would be like in your minarchy. I ain't scart.

[henry quirk]

Of course not, for the reasons I laid out above.