Bleh . . . - Page 2

Archer · 04-17-2003, 02:13 PM

that make this site so interesting.

Watching you all come together when someone had a fire in their home. The *cough* interesting discussion about a helicopter, and people with words on their chests, making poetry. The "yelling" that goes on between two of you on one thread, but that hostility resides within the thread, and is not taken personally (most of the time). IOTD, that was the hook, then the valid and (mostly) intelligent discussion kept my interest. Well that and the semi-prolific discussion on firearms (Glock 23 on me atm)

The whole concept of reading (on a relatively long term basis) the discussion of others is somewhat voyeuristic. There have been several times that I've thought about posting, and didn't.

Bruce, as for your question; I've not been swayed per say, but rather gained insight into other opinions, or further depth of knowledge about my own opinion. As for regular contributors changing views, strong (at least virtually) personality types tend to not change their opinions, oftentimes in the face of overwhelming contradictory evidence, and to contribue/hold your own on this board, you have to be have that strong personality. I'm sure you've seen the "kiddies" (my term) that bounce in, throw up a painfully weak-minded statement, try and defend it in a post or two, then dissappear.

/shrug

Yall just have good discussion.

Archer

hot_pastrami · 04-17-2003, 02:15 PM

I suspect there are many such as myself who interject only when they have unique thoughts which are complimentary to the conversation. I suppose that for me it's the distinction between contributing, and just posting. If I feel that my knowledge/opinions/insight on the matter at hand are of little or no value to the reader, I decline the opportunity to waste their time.

But that's just me.

Elspode · 04-17-2003, 02:21 PM

Hello, Archer. Welcome. You aren't a digiridoo player by any chance, are you?

Yes, I do have a reason for asking. I peripherally know someone who goes by the handle Archer, and you never know if this might be the same person.

Whit · 04-17-2003, 02:28 PM

     I'm in general agreement with you hp, but if every post is purely informative then the thread becomes an awfully dry read. This isn't really a bad thing, but I like to laugh a little too. Also, you have the silent majority issue. Just because someone else has already stated an opinion similar to yours doesn't mean that person couldn't use a little backing. It also gives a better idea of who holds a given opinion and lets us know you better. Which in turn, allows us to give you better feedback.

Undertoad · 04-17-2003, 02:32 PM

Readers: there aren't a ton of them, except for the IotD blog view. It used to be that on places like Usenet, there would be 10 readers for every poster. Here the ratio is probably closer to 1:1.

Changing your mind: it's still important to talk out all the points. If you're intellectually honest, you want to hear as many opinions as you can, especially the ones you don't agree with. If you don't change your mind, then your opinion is stronger because it's been tested. Of course that depends on one being open to other opinions and open to criticism.

warch · 04-17-2003, 02:32 PM

Lurkers are the great potential. I like to imagine there is quite a bit of interesting thought out there, lurking, reading, waiting, keeping it interesting.

What does it take to write? to jump in. Hmm, I agree takes a certain mindset to write and a sense of social comfort. I have deleted as many posts as Ive sent.
What made you leap? It could be a strong opinion, not yet expressed - poked into action, or a thread, casual enough to dare a wisecrack -Some comfort level reached. I would be in the wisecrack category.
Thread starting, that seems a next level, I'm certainly not comfortable there, maybe later.

hot_pastrami · 04-17-2003, 02:34 PM

Hey, Whit... if you hate my guts, then just come out and say it.

Griff · 04-17-2003, 02:46 PM

So, Archer is packing a Glock, I suppose that means (s)he is refering to some other activity that requires arching?

Archer · 04-17-2003, 03:42 PM

As for the handle, it came about from an old (1998?) Apache flight sim. It stuck around from Tribes and T2 for my love for sniping with a chain gun/vulcan. Oh and I'm lucky to hit center of mass outside of 12 feet with that 23.

As for changing your mind. What I see is more a flaw in the psyche. When certain personality types (e.g. A, red), are presented with a preponderance of evidence contradictory to thier position, or even more particularly a flaw in logic, they are just as likely to ignore the other argument or attempt to refute it through other means (denigration, straw man). This can hold particularly true in a public forum (The Cellar, a public debate, a "bar" discussion). Instead of modifying or outright changing their opinion, a person digs in to what, from an outside observer's opinion, is a flawed posture. It becomes a pride thing, at least for me (thought I don't think I'm alone).

Is it really a flaw? I guess I see it as a flaw within myself, but the ability to "stick to ones guns" can be very sucessful in the right circumstances. Almost like a fight or flight type thing.

In any case, it can make for a good laugh at someone else expense

Archer

xoxoxoBruce · 04-17-2003, 04:40 PM

Thanks Archer, and everyone else also.
By the way, last year I was building Apaches. Well sorta, in reality I was building the pilot and copilot doors. Very cool design. Half the damn door was window (plastic not glass). If they wanted to get out in a hurry, the window was caulked with plastic explosive of some sort. Don't open the door, just blow the window out. Imagine whipping into the parking lot and just blowing the door off your car. Bwhahahahahaha.

Whit · 04-17-2003, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Hey, Whit... if you hate my guts, then just come out and say it.

     Umm ... What?
     Actually, I was trying to encourage you to post more ... Were you joking perhaps? Did I just not get the joke?

     UT: That was my point exactly. I want to have my opinions challenged. Otherwise why bother to express them? How would getting a bunch of people, mostly in Philly, to agree with me improve my life? Now, having someone show me where I've got an opinion based on false info or made without enough info can do me some good. I can then change for the better. If my opinion stands then I can feel a little more sure of it. I don't see the point of communicating unless you're willing to allow it to change you. You gain nothing that way.

hot_pastrami · 04-17-2003, 05:52 PM

It was an attempt at humor. But, a crappy day does not cater to effective humor, and I should not have tried. Besides, sarcasm is a tool, not a weapon!

Man, I've got the munchies.

Whit · 04-17-2003, 06:07 PM

     We're good then. I was wondering, dude. I've pissed people off without trying for years, but I usually was aware of it when I did it. Also, it's no fun to piss people off if you can't see the look on their face.
     I would like to see you post more. I think the general belief around the Cellar is the more the merrier, unless you're a dumbass. You've got the right idea about posting, just loosen up a little.
     On an unrelated topic, am I the only one that has noticed the humor level around here has jumped up? I've been laughing my ass off all day...

04-18-2003, 05:59 AM

I've changed my opinion a lot since I came to the Cellar, believe it or not.

I'm trying to be nicer. It's just so hard when there are so many assholes.

xoxoxoBruce · 04-18-2003, 04:08 PM

Hey! I represent that.

04-17-2003, 02:13 PM	#16
Archer off target Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Indy Posts: 93	It's the people . . . that make this site so interesting. Watching you all come together when someone had a fire in their home. The cough interesting discussion about a helicopter, and people with words on their chests, making poetry. The "yelling" that goes on between two of you on one thread, but that hostility resides within the thread, and is not taken personally (most of the time). IOTD, that was the hook, then the valid and (mostly) intelligent discussion kept my interest. Well that and the semi-prolific discussion on firearms (Glock 23 on me atm) The whole concept of reading (on a relatively long term basis) the discussion of others is somewhat voyeuristic. There have been several times that I've thought about posting, and didn't. Bruce, as for your question; I've not been swayed per say, but rather gained insight into other opinions, or further depth of knowledge about my own opinion. As for regular contributors changing views, strong (at least virtually) personality types tend to not change their opinions, oftentimes in the face of overwhelming contradictory evidence, and to contribue/hold your own on this board, you have to be have that strong personality. I'm sure you've seen the "kiddies" (my term) that bounce in, throw up a painfully weak-minded statement, try and defend it in a post or two, then dissappear. /shrug Yall just have good discussion. Archer

04-17-2003, 02:15 PM	#17
hot_pastrami I am meaty Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Salt Lake City, UT Posts: 1,119	I suspect there are many such as myself who interject only when they have unique thoughts which are complimentary to the conversation. I suppose that for me it's the distinction between contributing, and just posting. If I feel that my knowledge/opinions/insight on the matter at hand are of little or no value to the reader, I decline the opportunity to waste their time. But that's just me. __________________ Hot Pastrami!

04-17-2003, 02:21 PM	#18
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	Hello, Archer. Welcome. You aren't a digiridoo player by any chance, are you? Yes, I do have a reason for asking. I peripherally know someone who goes by the handle Archer, and you never know if this might be the same person. __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

04-17-2003, 02:28 PM	#19
Whit Umm ... yeah. Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Arkansas, USA Posts: 949	I'm in general agreement with you hp, but if every post is purely informative then the thread becomes an awfully dry read. This isn't really a bad thing, but I like to laugh a little too. Also, you have the silent majority issue. Just because someone else has already stated an opinion similar to yours doesn't mean that person couldn't use a little backing. It also gives a better idea of who holds a given opinion and lets us know you better. Which in turn, allows us to give you better feedback. __________________ A friend will help you move. A true friend will help you move a body.

04-17-2003, 02:34 PM	#22
hot_pastrami I am meaty Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Salt Lake City, UT Posts: 1,119	Hey, Whit... if you hate my guts, then just come out and say it. __________________ Hot Pastrami!

04-17-2003, 02:32 PM	#20
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Readers: there aren't a ton of them, except for the IotD blog view. It used to be that on places like Usenet, there would be 10 readers for every poster. Here the ratio is probably closer to 1:1. Changing your mind: it's still important to talk out all the points. If you're intellectually honest, you want to hear as many opinions as you can, especially the ones you don't agree with. If you don't change your mind, then your opinion is stronger because it's been tested. Of course that depends on one being open to other opinions and open to criticism.

04-17-2003, 02:32 PM	#21
warch lurkin old school Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,796	Lurkers are the great potential. I like to imagine there is quite a bit of interesting thought out there, lurking, reading, waiting, keeping it interesting. What does it take to write? to jump in. Hmm, I agree takes a certain mindset to write and a sense of social comfort. I have deleted as many posts as Ive sent. What made you leap? It could be a strong opinion, not yet expressed - poked into action, or a thread, casual enough to dare a wisecrack -Some comfort level reached. I would be in the wisecrack category. Thread starting, that seems a next level, I'm certainly not comfortable there, maybe later.

04-17-2003, 02:46 PM	#23
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	So, Archer is packing a Glock, I suppose that means (s)he is refering to some other activity that requires arching? __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

04-17-2003, 03:42 PM	#24
Archer off target Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Indy Posts: 93	Elspode; nah not me. As for the handle, it came about from an old (1998?) Apache flight sim. It stuck around from Tribes and T2 for my love for sniping with a chain gun/vulcan. Oh and I'm lucky to hit center of mass outside of 12 feet with that 23. As for changing your mind. What I see is more a flaw in the psyche. When certain personality types (e.g. A, red), are presented with a preponderance of evidence contradictory to thier position, or even more particularly a flaw in logic, they are just as likely to ignore the other argument or attempt to refute it through other means (denigration, straw man). This can hold particularly true in a public forum (The Cellar, a public debate, a "bar" discussion). Instead of modifying or outright changing their opinion, a person digs in to what, from an outside observer's opinion, is a flawed posture. It becomes a pride thing, at least for me (thought I don't think I'm alone). Is it really a flaw? I guess I see it as a flaw within myself, but the ability to "stick to ones guns" can be very sucessful in the right circumstances. Almost like a fight or flight type thing. In any case, it can make for a good laugh at someone else expense Archer

04-17-2003, 04:40 PM	#25
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Thanks Archer, and everyone else also. By the way, last year I was building Apaches. Well sorta, in reality I was building the pilot and copilot doors. Very cool design. Half the damn door was window (plastic not glass). If they wanted to get out in a hurry, the window was caulked with plastic explosive of some sort. Don't open the door, just blow the window out. Imagine whipping into the parking lot and just blowing the door off your car. Bwhahahahahaha. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

04-17-2003, 05:52 PM	#27
hot_pastrami I am meaty Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Salt Lake City, UT Posts: 1,119	It was an attempt at humor. But, a crappy day does not cater to effective humor, and I should not have tried. Besides, sarcasm is a tool, not a weapon! Man, I've got the munchies. __________________ Hot Pastrami!

04-17-2003, 06:07 PM	#28
Whit Umm ... yeah. Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Arkansas, USA Posts: 949	Cool.      We're good then. I was wondering, dude. I've pissed people off without trying for years, but I usually was aware of it when I did it. Also, it's no fun to piss people off if you can't see the look on their face.      I would like to see you post more. I think the general belief around the Cellar is the more the merrier, unless you're a dumbass. You've got the right idea about posting, just loosen up a little.      On an unrelated topic, am I the only one that has noticed the humor level around here has jumped up? I've been laughing my ass off all day... __________________ A friend will help you move. A true friend will help you move a body.

04-18-2003, 05:59 AM	#29
dave Guest Posts: n/a	I've changed my opinion a lot since I came to the Cellar, believe it or not. I'm trying to be nicer. It's just so hard when there are so many assholes.

04-18-2003, 04:08 PM	#30
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Hey! I represent that. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

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