NO MORE REDSKINS

[infinite monkey]

Classic, is that you? Yay!

Love the new logo. I'm still leaning towards redskin peanuts, though. It's a tough choice.

[monster]

The Foreskins

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by Gravdigr

The Political Correctness

Stewart Lee calls it 'institutional politeness'

Because however much we rail against it, and however many silly PC stories there are - it is a nicer world where people don't feel comfortable shouting nigger and kike.

[Spexxvet]

The Washington Motherfucking Ofays

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Stewart Lee calls it 'institutional politeness'

Because however much we rail against it, and however many silly PC stories there are - it is a nicer world where people don't feel comfortable shouting nigger and kike.

Nonsense, I don't believe it. Someone decides we must call kids mentally challenged, because retarded carries a stigma. So what do people do when they hear mentally challenged? They translate to retarded in their head and any stigma they had attached or accepted is dragged along to the new phrase. All they've accomplished is giving more ammo to the PC Patrols to further divide people.

[DanaC]

I think mentally challenged is as bad :p

If people find it upsetting and degrading to be called retarded, then I'd rather know that they find it upsetting and degrading and would also rather know what they would prefer to be called.

People fight so hard for their right not to have to think about the terms they use about other people.

Language changes and evolves. Some people get over the top hysterical and choose to take offence at anything - but sometimes the words in common currency are actually quite offensive and it is no bad thing to update them.

It's like the term 'half caste'. That was perfectly acceptable when I was growing up. It is not acceptable now - and for good reason. It has a very racist meaning and origin.


Oh, and btw: there are no PC patrols - PC is an idea; it isn't a government agency.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Some people get over the top hysterical and choose to take offence at anything - but sometimes the words in common currency are actually quite offensive and it is no bad thing to update them.

It's like the term 'half caste'. That was perfectly acceptable when I was growing up. It is not acceptable now - and for good reason. It has a very racist meaning and origin.


Oh, and btw: there are no PC patrols - PC is an idea; it isn't a government agency.

No, half-caste simply means mixed race. There's no racism in that description. The racism is what racists think when they hear or use that term. Which is exactly my point, whatever phrase replaces half-caste will mean the same thing, and that thing will depend on your view.
You can't run away from it by changing acceptable terms, you have to confront it. Yeah, half-caste, so what motherfucker?

No PC Patrols? What are you new to the internet? C'mon, they're as plentiful as grammar Nazis. I've met a bunch in real life to, they are particularly plentiful at school board meetings, community volunteer committees, youth activities organizations, and the like.

[monster]

The Crackers.

If, as some dictionaries suggest, Caste comes from he Latin Castus meaning pure, then I can see how half-caste could be deemed offensive. Just because it has been used to mean mixed race for some time and sometime in an inoffensive way, doesn't mean it is essentially inoffensive or acceptable today.

[sexobon]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

The government yanked the patent/copyright of the Redskins, essentially killing the name.

Does that make the government an Indian giver?

[Undertoad]

Essentially, the perceived hurtfulness of a name is inversely proportionate to how well that group is doing. When a group is doing well, call them anything and it is not a problem. Whitey? Call us whatever you like. When was the last time people worried about offending (North American) Jews? They aren't offended by terminology, because as a group, they're doing great. Japanese? No problem. American Indians Native Americans? Well they have some problems it seems, so we'd better watch ourselves, take some caution. Blacks? We can't even SETTLE on a daily terminology, every single word is treading on lines.

Therefore, if the majority feels that a group is to be treated with political correctness, that group should take deep offense. "Don't worry about us, we're doing fine."

[DanaC]

It isn't about the majority - so much as it is about the general power differential.

Native Americans and black Americans, are still living with the cultural and economic fallout of genocide and slavery, Jim Crow and lynchings, and dehumanisation.

Jewish Americans are not as economically or culturally weakened in America.

Over here, in Europe, people still worry about offending Jews - because that legacy is still raw. People in Britain still worry about offending the Irish, or Indians, because those legacies are still raw.

People get het up because they're 'not allowed' to use words they've used all their lives. It's uncomfortable to have to change speech patterns. But I for one don't want to use words about other people that those other people find hurtful, unless I am consciously trying to hurt them.

When i was growing up, it was acceptable to say paki - it isn't now. Why? because it is/was demeaning and belittling and used as a way to cause hurt and offence to anybody from India or Pakistan..

I Like that it isn't acceptable anymore to say that word. Because nor is it considered ok to spraypaint 'pakis go home' on the walls of their houses, nor is it acceptable to tell racist jokes about them (what's black and brown and looks good on a paki? A rottweiler) while they live in a state of perpetual fear.

[DanaC]

Waaaaaaahhhh I can't call children retarded, i have to use a different word. Waaaaahhhh I have to think for a fucking second what terminology I use. Waaaahhh people might get annoyed with me if I get it wrong.

In my own experience, most people don't get annoyed until the person using the out of date, no longer acceptable word digs their heels in and refuses to use a different one.

[DanaC]

So what do people do when they hear mentally challenged? They translate to retarded in their head and any stigma they had attached or accepted is dragged along to the new phrase.

I disagree with this. Words have power and the words we choose to use carry multiple connotations. The word 'retard' carries connotations beyond the mental capacity of the person being described. It carries connotations of being stunted, of something preventing that person from becoming complete.

It's also a fuck of a lot harder to turn the phrase 'learning disabled' into a catchy insult to throw across a playground. People still use the word retard as an insult. But now the doctors and teachers and other people in official capacities aren't sharing the same word that the bullies in the playground are using.

[Sundae]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

No, half-caste simply means mixed race. There's no racism in that description. The racism is what racists think when they hear or use that term. Which is exactly my point, whatever phrase replaces half-caste will mean the same thing, and that thing will depend on your view.

Half-caste is offensive, because it refers to the caste system in India.
It is not possible to be half in one caste and half in another. It describes someone who belongs nowhere, because they are rejected by the castes that each of their parents belong to.

It's like the term mulatto for people of mixed race/ dual heritage/ bi-racial, whathaveyou. It's just a word. But although there is some debate over when and where the word came about, for years it was generally understood to mean mule. The offspring of a horse and a donkey, useful only for hard work, unable to reproduce, neither nowt nor summat.

Why a word is used and its etymology is important. It means you can decide whether to use it or not. I wouldn't use the term half-caste because I know what it implies.

[Spexxvet]

Why is it so difficult to have the consideration to refer to people as they want?