Need advice - Page 2

Tobiasly · 11-30-2002, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mbpark
and it makes even USB 1.1 devices way faster.

Really? How's it do that; bigger cache or something?

I have a USB 2.0 card that came with my Asus dual Athlon board, but I'm not really using it 'cause I don't have any 2.0 devices.

What kinda speed improvement do you see?

Tobiasly · 11-30-2002, 07:36 PM

Hmmm, looks like you're misinformed about 1.1 devices running faster:

http://www.everythingusb.com/usb2/faq.htm

Quote:

<B>Will USB 1.1 devices run any faster on a USB 2.0 bus?</B>
No. However, the new USB 2.0 archiclecture allows more high-speed USB 1.1 devices, such as webcams, audio devices, to share the bandwidth. Developers need to follow USB 2.0 spec in order to design higher speed peripherals that can take advantage of the extra bandwidth. USB 1.1 devices still operate at 12Mbps at full-speed and 1.5Mbps at low-speed on a USB 2.0 bus. Even though USB 1.1 devices won’t run any faster, they can work alongside of USB 2.0 devices on the same bus.

I suppose you'd notice a speed improvement if you were previously maxing out your bandwidth, but unless you're using several high-speed devices at once, I doubt that'd happen.

mbpark · 11-30-2002, 09:14 PM

Tobiasly,

The reason I said the NEC was faster was because for multiple devices, there are 3 separate USB 1.1 controllers on the NEC chip. This means that the controller itself can, instead of handling multiple devices with one controller, mux it amongst 3.

This means that when you have what I have (USB Scanner, Gamepad, CF Reader, web cam, keyboard, mouse, USB 2.0 HD (for work), Belkin USB Serial Port, and ATI Remote Control Reciever), things work a lot better off of the NEC than anything else.

It's more scalable than the 1 or 2 placed in most Intel motherboards.

Mitch

BrianR · 12-05-2002, 07:27 PM

I think my head has exploded. Too many unfamiliar expressions and abbreviations.

And I don't know if I want SCSI or ATA drives.

cache? more = better? or just more expensive?

423 pin CPU or 478?

how big a cooling fan do I need?

133 bus or 100? or more?

how much video RAM? max it out or can I get by with, say, 64 Megs?

I'm lost these days and I don't want to take courses to catch up.

Dave or Mitch, call me when you have time and I'll take your advice.

Thanks

Brian

Tobiasly · 12-05-2002, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mbpark
This means that when you have what I have (USB Scanner, Gamepad, CF Reader, web cam, keyboard, mouse, USB 2.0 HD (for work), Belkin USB Serial Port, and ATI Remote Control Reciever), things work a lot better off of the NEC than anything else.

Sorry, missed your post earlier..

I said at the end of my post, "I suppose you'd notice a speed improvement if you were previously maxing out your bandwidth, but unless you're using several high-speed devices at once, I doubt that'd happen." And I believe you fit that description.

mbpark · 12-05-2002, 09:04 PM

Here's what you want out of that:

1. Socket 478 is your friend. The chips are smaller and cooler. You'll still need a big fan, but the OEM CPU packs come with them. If not, a good one is available for $20

.

2. 133Mhz bus. Yes, you want this. The 100Mhz bus is SLOW.

3. ATA drives are significantly faster than they used to be. For what you need, ATA is fine, and SCSI is still very expensive.

4. More cache is better with the P4, yes. The 133Mhz ones have 512K, which is enough. Celerons have less, and should be avoided. The new Celerons are socket 478 as well.

Mitch

Tobiasly · 12-05-2002, 10:25 PM

Brian, in order:
<UL>
<LI>If you don't know whether you want SCSI or ATA, you want ATA. At least UltraDMA/100. Don't worry too much about UDMA/133, Serial ATA, or any of the newer stuff; for a single hard drive, you won't max out your bus's bandwidth anyway. But <B>make sure</B> it's 7200 RPM.. never buy a 5400!</LI>
<LI>Cache.. hard drive cache? Yes, more is better, but cache works best only when you're streaming data continuously, such as video editing and the like.</LI>
<LI>Buy a chip with however many pins your motherboard uses.

Or rather, buy a motherboard that accepts however many pins your CPU has. It's not the # of pins; it's the capability of the chip.</LI>
<LI>Unless you're overclocking (which you won't be), the cooling fan isn't a big issue. Just buy one that says it's for whatever CPU you get. Some people will tell you that you need some huge fan/heatsink combo, but please don't spend $30 on a fan.</LI>
<LI>133 bus, at least. I think the newest P4's can go even faster, but those are prolly still too expensive right now.</LI>
<LI>There are probably some 64 MB video cards that outperform 128 MB cards. And then there are different types of video RAM, some of which is faster. I'll let someone else help ya with that, since I don't play games as much.</LI>
</UL>I realize this prolly doesn't help out a whole lot; I just felt like giving my two cents worth.. In your case, I'd definitely recommend just letting someone else pick all the parts for you.

You can still have plenty of fun putting them together yourself, and you'll be more comfortable with making these types of decisions next time.

Tobiasly · 12-05-2002, 10:27 PM

D'oh! Forgot to hit "submit" for an hour or so!

Um, yeah, listen to what mbpark says. When it comes to Intel chips, I'm not very good on the specifics.

BrianR · 12-07-2002, 12:54 PM

I saw this somewhere and I gotta have it! Just kidding

but it's cute anyway!

Note the lotion and tissue dispensers?

perth · 12-07-2002, 12:56 PM

are those coin acceptors on the front?

~james

Undertoad · 12-07-2002, 12:57 PM

With the Dremel tool (case seen at the lower right in that picture), you can cut pretty much any hole in the side of your case, in any shape you like.

perth · 12-07-2002, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Undertoad
With the Dremel tool (case seen at the lower right in that picture), you can cut pretty much any hole in the side of your case, in any shape you like.

im getting one for christmas.

~james

Tobiasly · 12-07-2002, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by perth
are those coin acceptors on the front?

~james

Sure looks like it!

Maybe it plays Ms. Pac-Man?

perth · 12-07-2002, 09:57 PM

well, if they are, thats the coolest damn case mod ever. the elegant simplicity of it...

~james

Undertoad · 12-07-2002, 11:39 PM

The website on the image has the details. not only are they working coin slots but you have to put a quarter in the one on the left to turn the system on. (he has a backup method of course) Also, the LED in the left slot is the hard drive activity light.

11-30-2002, 09:14 PM	#18
mbpark Lecturer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Carmel, Indiana Posts: 761	USB 1.1 v 2.0 Tobiasly, The reason I said the NEC was faster was because for multiple devices, there are 3 separate USB 1.1 controllers on the NEC chip. This means that the controller itself can, instead of handling multiple devices with one controller, mux it amongst 3. This means that when you have what I have (USB Scanner, Gamepad, CF Reader, web cam, keyboard, mouse, USB 2.0 HD (for work), Belkin USB Serial Port, and ATI Remote Control Reciever), things work a lot better off of the NEC than anything else. It's more scalable than the 1 or 2 placed in most Intel motherboards. Mitch

12-05-2002, 07:27 PM	#19
BrianR Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 3,338	I think my head has exploded. Too many unfamiliar expressions and abbreviations. And I don't know if I want SCSI or ATA drives. cache? more = better? or just more expensive? 423 pin CPU or 478? how big a cooling fan do I need? 133 bus or 100? or more? how much video RAM? max it out or can I get by with, say, 64 Megs? I'm lost these days and I don't want to take courses to catch up. Dave or Mitch, call me when you have time and I'll take your advice. Thanks Brian __________________ Never be afraid to tell the world who you are. -- Anonymous

12-05-2002, 09:04 PM	#21
mbpark Lecturer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Carmel, Indiana Posts: 761	To answer your questions: Here's what you want out of that: 1. Socket 478 is your friend. The chips are smaller and cooler. You'll still need a big fan, but the OEM CPU packs come with them. If not, a good one is available for $20 . 2. 133Mhz bus. Yes, you want this. The 100Mhz bus is SLOW. 3. ATA drives are significantly faster than they used to be. For what you need, ATA is fine, and SCSI is still very expensive. 4. More cache is better with the P4, yes. The 133Mhz ones have 512K, which is enough. Celerons have less, and should be avoided. The new Celerons are socket 478 as well. Mitch

12-07-2002, 12:54 PM	#24
BrianR Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 3,338	I want! I saw this somewhere and I gotta have it! Just kidding but it's cute anyway! Note the lotion and tissue dispensers? Attached Images __________________ Never be afraid to tell the world who you are. -- Anonymous

12-05-2002, 10:25 PM	#22
Tobiasly hot Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Jeffersonville, IN (near Louisville) Posts: 892	Brian, in order: <UL> <LI>If you don't know whether you want SCSI or ATA, you want ATA. At least UltraDMA/100. Don't worry too much about UDMA/133, Serial ATA, or any of the newer stuff; for a single hard drive, you won't max out your bus's bandwidth anyway. But <B>make sure</B> it's 7200 RPM.. never buy a 5400!</LI> <LI>Cache.. hard drive cache? Yes, more is better, but cache works best only when you're streaming data continuously, such as video editing and the like.</LI> <LI>Buy a chip with however many pins your motherboard uses. Or rather, buy a motherboard that accepts however many pins your CPU has. It's not the # of pins; it's the capability of the chip.</LI> <LI>Unless you're overclocking (which you won't be), the cooling fan isn't a big issue. Just buy one that says it's for whatever CPU you get. Some people will tell you that you need some huge fan/heatsink combo, but please don't spend $30 on a fan.</LI> <LI>133 bus, at least. I think the newest P4's can go even faster, but those are prolly still too expensive right now.</LI> <LI>There are probably some 64 MB video cards that outperform 128 MB cards. And then there are different types of video RAM, some of which is faster. I'll let someone else help ya with that, since I don't play games as much.</LI> </UL>I realize this prolly doesn't help out a whole lot; I just felt like giving my two cents worth.. In your case, I'd definitely recommend just letting someone else pick all the parts for you. You can still have plenty of fun putting them together yourself, and you'll be more comfortable with making these types of decisions next time.

12-05-2002, 10:27 PM	#23
Tobiasly hot Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Jeffersonville, IN (near Louisville) Posts: 892	D'oh! Forgot to hit "submit" for an hour or so! Um, yeah, listen to what mbpark says. When it comes to Intel chips, I'm not very good on the specifics.

12-07-2002, 12:56 PM	#25
perth Strong Silent Type Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 1,949	are those coin acceptors on the front? ~james

12-07-2002, 12:57 PM	#26
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	With the Dremel tool (case seen at the lower right in that picture), you can cut pretty much any hole in the side of your case, in any shape you like.

12-07-2002, 09:57 PM	#29
perth Strong Silent Type Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 1,949	well, if they are, thats the coolest damn case mod ever. the elegant simplicity of it... ~james

12-07-2002, 11:39 PM	#30
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	The website on the image has the details. not only are they working coin slots but you have to put a quarter in the one on the left to turn the system on. (he has a backup method of course) Also, the LED in the left slot is the hard drive activity light.

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