Do humans have a faith instinct?

[DanaC]

I heard a piece on radio ages ago, about chimpanzees. Apparently, when there's a big storm the male chimps act out some kind of 'dance'. It's very specific and only occurs when there's a big storm, but it involves them grabbing the branches and shaking them and dancing up and down, facing towards the storm front. Then they just sit and watch it happen.

It's been suggested by some that this is a kind of proto religious experience. Not thought out like our 'faith' but a sign that they recognise the storm front as something bigger than them and something that exists as a 'thing' rather than just a series of processes.

[Sundae]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

Good question Sam. My thoughts are that we believe or have faith in some God or other simply because we're so narcisitic as a species that we can't imagine only having one life like everything else. We can't accept we're just an organic construct, so we must be special where everything else isn't, so in order to waylay these fears somewhat, we've created higher powers.

^what she said^

[SamIam]

Originally Posted by DanaC

I heard a piece on radio ages ago, about chimpanzees. Apparently, when there's a big storm the male chimps act out some kind of 'dance'. It's very specific and only occurs when there's a big storm, but it involves them grabbing the branches and shaking them and dancing up and down, facing towards the storm front. Then they just sit and watch it happen.

It's been suggested by some that this is a kind of proto religious experience. Not thought out like our 'faith' but a sign that they recognise the storm front as something bigger than them and something that exists as a 'thing' rather than just a series of processes.

That was very interesting, Dana. Thanks for an informative post!

[classicman]

Dana, it sounds to me like they know the storm is coming and are trying to relay that information as best they can. Where religion comes into that? I've no idea.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by SamIam

It seems as though history always describes a faith of some sort in ancient and not so ancient peoples. Anthropoligists often make the same observations of the peoples they study. So is faith somehow on one of our genes?

Its extremely difficult to differentiate between genetic and environmental (learned) behavior but I learned something recently that really changed how I view this question.

Most of us find "truth" through the scientific method where truth is supported by evidence. An 8 year old with solid evidence will be have more validity than an 80 year old with no evidence. I recently learned that this mindset is in fact quite recent and most of past human civilization has viewed "truth" differently.

One mindset which is still part of our society is truth from authority. An authority figure (king, priest, The Bible) dictates what is true or not.

Another, and more interesting IMO, is a "truth" that is not necessary supported by concrete evidence, but from what the mainstream dictates is true. For example, if I tell someone something and then that person passes away, then I tell everyone else that I said something different, the latter becomes a "truth". So, getting back to faith, if everyone believes that we have a supernatural being watching over us, it really doesn't matter what is actually true (yes I am biased), since either way cannot be proven, then that supernatural being becomes "truth". In a basic civilization or hunter gatherer society, different mindsets on what "truth" is probably were more efficient and adaptable with the type of society. I can't image a hunter gatherer society really being successful with the entire group dedicated to the scientific method.

So, a possible theory is that it may not be a "faith gene" but, along with other reasons mentioned in this thread, that historically humans have viewed the world with a different mindset on what truth is, allowing supernatural beings to be much more accepted. Or, this "faith gene" tends to naturally form a mindset where faith is determined as truth and we have recently overcame this "faith gene" with strong social conditioning.


Also, I do not view this mindset as black and ours as white. I see them as different shades of gray where recently the majority has shifted from a lighter shade to a darker.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I can't image a hunter gatherer society really being successful with the entire group dedicated to the scientific method.

Before 150 years ago there was no scientific method, and until after WWII, it wasn't that widespread, now it's supposed to be infallible.
How did you hear about the last scientific discovery, you learned? Probably somebody told you, as I really don't think you know all that many breakthrough, award winning, scientists. I've met, I think two, but haven't known any. Anyway when that person told you about it, did you check on the scientist? Look at the original data?, Read the synopsis of the research? No, you believed them. Everyone does, unless it's something that they're sure would have a big impact on their life.

So you see, we still operate on faith. What we hear still becomes the truth, because we assume the people that should know, do know. Nothing's changed.

[piercehawkeye45]

Touche.

[jujuwwhite]

To me FAITH is the acceptance of something unseen. In a way, having Faith gives us as humans the opportunity to 'pass the buck' of responsibility on to a higher power. Instead of worrying about a problem, I just have 'faith' that my higher power will handle the situation and it will all work out in the end.

[DanaC]

Yehbut...we've seen your higher power!

[jujuwwhite]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Yehbut...we've seen your higher power!

sorry Dana. didn't mean to insult ya. I sure didn't mean to get into a pissing contest over my thoughts and experiences. I hope there is no harm done.

[Clodfobble]

Dana was joking, Juju. Get your mind in the gutter.

[DanaC]

*grins* Clod's right. Join me in the gutter. Join us....join us

Brit = filthy

[TheMercenary]

Great thread. Good thoughts and much to think about.

[skysidhe]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Dana was joking, Juju. Get your mind in the gutter.

Originally Posted by DanaC

*grins* Clod's right. Join me in the gutter. Join us....join us

Brit = filthy

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Great thread. Good thoughts and muck to think about.

Fixed it for ya Merc.

After reading the previous two posts I thought I saw 'muck' instead of 'much' so I thought I'd go with it.

[skysidhe]

Originally Posted by glatt

We are probably hardwired for religion. As a social species, it's something that unites our tribe against the neighboring one. It makes us more successful, and more likely to pass our genes down, ensuring the trait is passed on. Natural selection. Sure.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

People, from the beginning up until relatively recently, lived with nature. In doing so they realized how weak and insignificant humans are, compared to many other animals and certainly to the natural forces of nature.

In regards to the original post I think these two answers answer it for me pretty closely except for the hard wired part. I'd say tradition and culture pressed upon and passed down.

Do all people who live in rural areas think spiritually when they view awe inspiring nature? or feel feeble then grasp out? or are more inclined to follow a small societies religious groups because being an outsider is harder to do in rural areas rather than in large cities?

We must not be too hardwired for it if when leaving a geographic location or group we can just as easily leave our faith.

My family was not religious when I was a kid but I always thought the world was a beautiful thing. I still think the world is beautiful but it doesn't marry well with religiosity which should not be confused with spirituality.