Who is going to pay for it all? - Page 2

Shawnee123 · 11-24-2009, 10:43 AM

Oh, that's all paid for! No questions asked. Something about "living in fear of losing all our freedoms..." Yes, I know that's the argument against trying to reform the nightmare that is our health care system, but someone has to point out the hypocrisy therein.

lookout123 · 11-24-2009, 10:48 AM

all would probably encompass, well, all of it.

Foolishly blowing untold $$$$$$$$ in war zones certainly can't be justification enough for foolishly blowing untold $$$$$$$ on other boondoggles.

Trilby · 11-24-2009, 10:56 AM

at least those other "boondoggles" will directly help people in the US.

ya know what? This is the same old argument about to happen that has always happened. Fook it.

lookout123 · 11-24-2009, 10:58 AM

I'm not arguing. I don't give a fuck about what programs or boondoggles we're talking about anymore. The question really does boil down to the thread title. Who is going to pay for it? How? You have to have something more substantial than "those rich fuckers with two cars".

Trilby · 11-24-2009, 11:00 AM

who's paying for shit now? Those same people, I imagine, the MIDDLE CLASS, will get stuck with the bill like they've always been stuck with the bill.

I don't see any rich people selling match-sticks just yet. Calm down.

Shawnee123 · 11-24-2009, 11:01 AM

I'll leave more substantial answers for the more astute dwellars who can argue these kinds of things, and also for a question that deserves a more substantial answer: something a bit less open-ended and baiting than "who's gonna pay. who who who?"

A lot of people are having to suck it up right now. Perhaps you are angry because you are having to suck it up too.

Ah well, tis the real world.

SamIam · 11-24-2009, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brianna

who's paying for shit now? Those same people, I imagine, the MIDDLE CLASS, will get stuck with the bill like they've always been stuck with the bill.

I don't see any rich people selling match-sticks just yet. Calm down.

No, no, no. Its the upper 1% in income. Just ask Merc. We treat the wealthy very unkindly. Of course the middle class should pay more. That way the rich will be relieved of their horrible tax burden.

lookout123 · 11-24-2009, 11:10 AM

Angry? Not at all. Annoyed and frustrated that so many people don't seem to care.

I've got a friend who rages on and on about people borrowing money they knew they had no chance of paying back, (a reasonable complaint, IMO) but then he will turn immediately to the need for a program to do this or that admirable thing. I ask him how to pay for it and he just says that is the government's job to figure it out. The government pays for things by taxing what they can and borrowing the rest. There is a disconnect in there somewhere.

Bri - Of course, the middle class (regardless of who you think that is) will pay for it because they pay for everything. The politicians come from the wealthy and they'll never put anything in place that genuinely hurts them and theirs. They'll talk and talk to get the middle and lower classes upset enough to support their plan all the while knowing there are plenty of loopholes for the rich. So in the end a plan to hammer the rich always gets the middle class instead.

Shawnee - I'm smack dab in middle class so I've been sucking it up all along and that is ok - that's life.

Trilby · 11-24-2009, 11:17 AM

Here's the math:

500.00/month for a single mother of three for food, sundries. She has to go to a church charity once a week to feed her kids - oh, who stocks the church food pantry? the same people who were taxed to give her the five hundred.

1 fucking whole lot more/month for rebuilding Iraq and Afghanistan - and for training their soliders so one day they can turn around and attack us properly. Who pays this bill? The same people who stock the church food pantry.

Such a disconnect. Boggles the mind.

if you're asking who will pay for health care - you're paying for that homeless person's CABG NOW whether you want to believe that or not.

lookout123 · 11-24-2009, 12:04 PM

I r conservative so not so smart. Let me see if I understand what you're saying.

1) A mother of 3 is receiving $500/month. The obvious point is that isn't enough to support the family. She goes to a charity program to receive additional assistance. Glad to hear that such a program is able to exist based on the donations it receives. Obviously the mother is not living the life of dreams. That is unfortunate and I feel for her situation. I genuinely hope that she sees a turnaround soon.

2) Iraq and Afghanistan are fucked and we're sending truckloads of money dressed in camouflage there every month. Yep, that sucks and we've got to figure out a way to end that charlie fox asap. Yep, taxpayers are on the hook for that. Of course, we're spending more than we're collecting so we're really borrowing money to do that. Money my kids and their kids will have to pay back in future taxes. That sucks.

3) Healthcare. So our tax money pays for a very very minimal welfare system which hardly provides enough to make ends meet, got it. I'm glad that at least that small safety net is in place. Where you lose me is in the idea that because we are wasting money in one place I shouldn't lose any sleep over borrowing more money to pay for an entirely new bureaucracy to be created and administered.

That is kind of like a doctor looking at a patient with a gunshot wound in the chest and deciding since he's losing so much blood anyway, maybe we could take a little more from him for some experimental shit on the side.

Trilby · 11-24-2009, 12:15 PM

yeah.

really.

that's it, lookout.

Get us out of the middle fooking east and help out our own. That's what I mean. gotta go- off to the doc. Thank god I can afford the doctor, eh?

lookout123 · 11-24-2009, 12:26 PM

Just curious Bri, when exactly did I become your enemy?

11-24-2009, 01:08 PM

lookout...correct me if I am wrong, but it appears that you are attempting to make this a conservative = good, liberal=bad discussion....but lets assume you're not.

The US has been deficit spending for most of the last 100 years, particularly in times of war and economic recession and each time, the economy has recovered and grown and become even stronger because the US economic engine is still the most powerful in the world....even in a global economy, the likes of which we have never seen in the past.

More importantly, fiscal discipline is not just a macro concept. It requires individuals to recognize their own spending limits. Our parents and grand-parents understood that, but more recently, IMO, far too many Americans have been slow or unwilling to recognize and accept that personal responsibility.

When one becomes so spoiled as a nation, the concept of personal sacrifice gets lost.

lookout123 · 11-24-2009, 01:16 PM

Conservative = good, liberal = bad? well, du-uh.

Not really, conservative and liberal are irrelevant except when trying to classify and separate people.

My concern for spending is not new or limited to healthcare. Deficit spending is not new and not necessarily the end of the world. What concerns me though is the fact we don't seem to care about our ability to service our debt. We're talking degrees of scale here. The family that wakes up to realize they earn $4,000 per month but payout $3,500 to debt before even eating is well and truly screwed. Our government and we need to understand that it works like that at the national level too.

If it seems I'm only concerned with the cost of healthcare, I'm not, it's just that is the latest greatest program we want to create that will cost trillions more than we have.

glatt · 11-24-2009, 01:19 PM

If it's any consolation, I heard on NPR this morning that at the latest "what the hell are we gonna do about Afghanistan" meeting in the White House, Obama had the money guys sitting at the same table as the generals as he was briefed about options.

11-24-2009, 10:43 AM	#16
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	Oh, that's all paid for! No questions asked. Something about "living in fear of losing all our freedoms..." Yes, I know that's the argument against trying to reform the nightmare that is our health care system, but someone has to point out the hypocrisy therein. __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

11-24-2009, 10:48 AM	#17
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	all would probably encompass, well, all of it. Foolishly blowing untold $$$$$$$$ in war zones certainly can't be justification enough for foolishly blowing untold $$$$$$$ on other boondoggles. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

11-24-2009, 10:58 AM	#19
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	I'm not arguing. I don't give a fuck about what programs or boondoggles we're talking about anymore. The question really does boil down to the thread title. Who is going to pay for it? How? You have to have something more substantial than "those rich fuckers with two cars". __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

11-24-2009, 11:01 AM	#21
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	I'll leave more substantial answers for the more astute dwellars who can argue these kinds of things, and also for a question that deserves a more substantial answer: something a bit less open-ended and baiting than "who's gonna pay. who who who?" A lot of people are having to suck it up right now. Perhaps you are angry because you are having to suck it up too. Ah well, tis the real world. __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

11-24-2009, 11:10 AM	#23
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	Angry? Not at all. Annoyed and frustrated that so many people don't seem to care. I've got a friend who rages on and on about people borrowing money they knew they had no chance of paying back, (a reasonable complaint, IMO) but then he will turn immediately to the need for a program to do this or that admirable thing. I ask him how to pay for it and he just says that is the government's job to figure it out. The government pays for things by taxing what they can and borrowing the rest. There is a disconnect in there somewhere. Bri - Of course, the middle class (regardless of who you think that is) will pay for it because they pay for everything. The politicians come from the wealthy and they'll never put anything in place that genuinely hurts them and theirs. They'll talk and talk to get the middle and lower classes upset enough to support their plan all the while knowing there are plenty of loopholes for the rich. So in the end a plan to hammer the rich always gets the middle class instead. Shawnee - I'm smack dab in middle class so I've been sucking it up all along and that is ok - that's life. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin Last edited by lookout123; 11-24-2009 at 12:37 PM.

11-24-2009, 10:56 AM	#18
Trilby Slattern of the Swail Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,654	at least those other "boondoggles" will directly help people in the US. ya know what? This is the same old argument about to happen that has always happened. Fook it.

11-24-2009, 11:00 AM	#20
Trilby Slattern of the Swail Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,654	who's paying for shit now? Those same people, I imagine, the MIDDLE CLASS, will get stuck with the bill like they've always been stuck with the bill. I don't see any rich people selling match-sticks just yet. Calm down.

11-24-2009, 11:17 AM	#24
Trilby Slattern of the Swail Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,654	Here's the math: 500.00/month for a single mother of three for food, sundries. She has to go to a church charity once a week to feed her kids - oh, who stocks the church food pantry? the same people who were taxed to give her the five hundred. 1 fucking whole lot more/month for rebuilding Iraq and Afghanistan - and for training their soliders so one day they can turn around and attack us properly. Who pays this bill? The same people who stock the church food pantry. Such a disconnect. Boggles the mind. if you're asking who will pay for health care - you're paying for that homeless person's CABG NOW whether you want to believe that or not.

11-24-2009, 12:04 PM	#25
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	I r conservative so not so smart. Let me see if I understand what you're saying. 1) A mother of 3 is receiving $500/month. The obvious point is that isn't enough to support the family. She goes to a charity program to receive additional assistance. Glad to hear that such a program is able to exist based on the donations it receives. Obviously the mother is not living the life of dreams. That is unfortunate and I feel for her situation. I genuinely hope that she sees a turnaround soon. 2) Iraq and Afghanistan are fucked and we're sending truckloads of money dressed in camouflage there every month. Yep, that sucks and we've got to figure out a way to end that charlie fox asap. Yep, taxpayers are on the hook for that. Of course, we're spending more than we're collecting so we're really borrowing money to do that. Money my kids and their kids will have to pay back in future taxes. That sucks. 3) Healthcare. So our tax money pays for a very very minimal welfare system which hardly provides enough to make ends meet, got it. I'm glad that at least that small safety net is in place. Where you lose me is in the idea that because we are wasting money in one place I shouldn't lose any sleep over borrowing more money to pay for an entirely new bureaucracy to be created and administered. That is kind of like a doctor looking at a patient with a gunshot wound in the chest and deciding since he's losing so much blood anyway, maybe we could take a little more from him for some experimental shit on the side. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

11-24-2009, 12:15 PM	#26
Trilby Slattern of the Swail Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,654	yeah. really. that's it, lookout. Get us out of the middle fooking east and help out our own. That's what I mean. gotta go- off to the doc. Thank god I can afford the doctor, eh?

11-24-2009, 12:26 PM	#27
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	Just curious Bri, when exactly did I become your enemy? __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

11-24-2009, 01:08 PM	#28
Redux Guest Posts: n/a	lookout...correct me if I am wrong, but it appears that you are attempting to make this a conservative = good, liberal=bad discussion....but lets assume you're not. The US has been deficit spending for most of the last 100 years, particularly in times of war and economic recession and each time, the economy has recovered and grown and become even stronger because the US economic engine is still the most powerful in the world....even in a global economy, the likes of which we have never seen in the past. More importantly, fiscal discipline is not just a macro concept. It requires individuals to recognize their own spending limits. Our parents and grand-parents understood that, but more recently, IMO, far too many Americans have been slow or unwilling to recognize and accept that personal responsibility. When one becomes so spoiled as a nation, the concept of personal sacrifice gets lost.

11-24-2009, 01:16 PM	#29
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	Conservative = good, liberal = bad? well, du-uh. Not really, conservative and liberal are irrelevant except when trying to classify and separate people. My concern for spending is not new or limited to healthcare. Deficit spending is not new and not necessarily the end of the world. What concerns me though is the fact we don't seem to care about our ability to service our debt. We're talking degrees of scale here. The family that wakes up to realize they earn $4,000 per month but payout $3,500 to debt before even eating is well and truly screwed. Our government and we need to understand that it works like that at the national level too. If it seems I'm only concerned with the cost of healthcare, I'm not, it's just that is the latest greatest program we want to create that will cost trillions more than we have. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

11-24-2009, 01:19 PM	#30
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	If it's any consolation, I heard on NPR this morning that at the latest "what the hell are we gonna do about Afghanistan" meeting in the White House, Obama had the money guys sitting at the same table as the generals as he was briefed about options.

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