Washington subway crash - Page 2

classicman · 06-23-2009, 09:30 AM

What? No stimulus money earmarked for this? Sheesh! This is right in their backyard - WTF?

dar512 · 06-23-2009, 09:35 AM

Actually, I think there is money earmarked for local rail (Chicago's Metra expects some anyway). But it's not available yet.

joelnwil · 06-23-2009, 10:03 AM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090623/...ain_derailment

"The subway train that plowed into another stopped train, killing at least seven people and injuring scores of others in the nation's capital, was part of an aging fleet that federal officials had sought to phase out because of safety concerns, an investigator said Tuesday.

But the Metrorail transit system kept the old trains running despite warnings in 2006, said Debbie Hersman of the National Transportation Safety Board."

"Hersman said investigators expect to recover recorders from the train that was struck. The train that triggered the collision was part of an old fleet that was not equipped with the devices, which can provide valuable information to determine why the crash occurred, Hersman said.

She told The Associated Press that the NTSB had warned of safety problems and recommended the old fleet be phased out or retrofitted to make it better withstand a crash. Neither was done, she said, which the NTSB considered "unacceptable.""

Our leaders at work.

joelnwil · 06-23-2009, 10:17 AM

"The leading train had stopped because it was waiting for another train to leave the Fort Totten station, officials said.

It was unclear why the following train had not received the signal to stop as well, or why the operator did not stop her train manually when she saw the tracks blocked ahead of her, officials said.

Passengers on the second train said it did not slow down at all before impact. "There was no attempt at braking. We just slammed into whatever we slammed into," passenger Theroza Doshi told Reuters."

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNe...55L69G20090623

Not paying attention.

Bad leadership in providing obsolete equipment (the board is appointed by our glorious representatives), and bad operator.

classicman · 06-23-2009, 10:15 AM

ok, fine if thats the case - find out who is in charge? "insert name here" Now cut his or her balls off. If its a committee, make a party of it and do them all. Our leaders NEED to be held accountable again.

sugarpop · 06-23-2009, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman

ok, fine if thats the case - find out who is in charge? "insert name here" Now cut his or her balls off. If its a committee, make a party of it and do them all. Our leaders NEED to be held accountable again.

Yes, and we NEED to spend on aging infrastructure! WTF is WRONG with people in power?

ZenGum · 06-23-2009, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarpop

Yes, and we NEED to spend on aging infrastructure! WTF is WRONG with people in power?

Simple.

Build a flshy new sports stadium = lots of publicity = votes.

Maintain and repair the stuff you already have = boring = look like you're doing sod all = no publicity = no votes.

, but what ya gonna do?

Elspode · 06-23-2009, 09:30 PM

Flashy sports stadia generate money for the teams inhabiting them, therefore they generate campaign donations for the election of people who got them built.

Infrastructure doesn't generate enough ongoing profit for those involved. Infrastructure is more along the lines of a one time bribe or graft under the table to secure the contracts, get it made into a Davis Bacon project so the unions get their cut, that sort of thing.

xoxoxoBruce · 06-24-2009, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspode

Infrastructure doesn't generate enough ongoing profit for those involved.

But it does provide ongoing employment for kin and hacks.

classicman · 06-23-2009, 07:51 PM

glad to hear you are ok as well as your family!

tw · 06-23-2009, 08:22 PM

Compare this to a crash nearby the Cellar in a place called Warminster. That is a single track. In that case, the signaling system did something the train engineer never saw happen. She kept calling for clarification even though the light said go. But her calls went unanswered. So she refused to move for over 5 minutes. As anyone knows, everything must always have a backup. The backup did not work. So she did what responsible people do: assume the worst and take appropriate caution.

Well, another train was racing towards her. Since she was stopped, the damage and dead were minimal.

Do you have the necessary attitude? Do you always set the parking brake - or so hate humanity as to trust that silly little pin triggered by a transmission in park? Same concept. How many will be so critical of an engineer now killed in the crash - rather than admit they too are just as irresponsible?

Aliantha · 06-23-2009, 09:48 PM

I'm not sure that's exactly how it works over here Els. If I'm right, Zen is refering to a recent election campaign here in Qld.

Beestie · 06-23-2009, 09:50 PM

Well when the system can't even get enough ridership to support itself then money has to come from somewhere else. Metro doesn't belong to DC, MD or VA so no elected leader is truly directly responsible for providing for it nor is the tax base of either jurisdiction.

Fares and parking are already too high so there really isn't much they can do.

Besides, I'm not about to blame the "sensors" when you can see from a mile away that you are about to run into something big that ain't moving.

glatt · 06-23-2009, 10:04 PM

Until an autopsy is performed that shows the driver was conscious just before the crash, I think it's not appropriate to blame this on the dead driver.

Maybe she was slumped over in her seat having just had a heart attack. Maybe she tried to stop, but the brakes didn't work. Nobody knows at this point.

sugarpop · 06-23-2009, 10:28 PM

How about this, the companies who operate the stuff should be REQUIRED to upgrade it every so often, at their own expense. Like, power companies should be responsible for their own upgrades. Why the hell should "we the people" have to pay for this shit with our tax dollars when we also have to pay for the service? It's just WRONG. And once the infrastructure is upgraded, with our tax dollars, you can bet your ass the power companies will raise the rates for the "new and improved" service.

06-23-2009, 09:30 AM	#1
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	What? No stimulus money earmarked for this? Sheesh! This is right in their backyard - WTF? __________________ "like strapping a pillow on a bull in a china shop" Bullitt

06-23-2009, 09:35 AM	#2
dar512 dar512 is now Pete Zicato Join Date: May 2003 Location: Chicago suburb Posts: 4,968	Actually, I think there is money earmarked for local rail (Chicago's Metra expects some anyway). But it's not available yet. __________________ "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain." -- Friedrich Schiller

06-23-2009, 10:15 AM	#5
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	ok, fine if thats the case - find out who is in charge? "insert name here" Now cut his or her balls off. If its a committee, make a party of it and do them all. Our leaders NEED to be held accountable again. __________________ "like strapping a pillow on a bull in a china shop" Bullitt

06-23-2009, 09:30 PM	#8
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	Flashy sports stadia generate money for the teams inhabiting them, therefore they generate campaign donations for the election of people who got them built. Infrastructure doesn't generate enough ongoing profit for those involved. Infrastructure is more along the lines of a one time bribe or graft under the table to secure the contracts, get it made into a Davis Bacon project so the unions get their cut, that sort of thing. __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

06-23-2009, 07:51 PM	#10
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	glad to hear you are ok as well as your family! __________________ "like strapping a pillow on a bull in a china shop" Bullitt

06-23-2009, 10:03 AM	#3
joelnwil Major Inhabitant Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Silver Spring MD Posts: 128	http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090623/...ain_derailment "The subway train that plowed into another stopped train, killing at least seven people and injuring scores of others in the nation's capital, was part of an aging fleet that federal officials had sought to phase out because of safety concerns, an investigator said Tuesday. But the Metrorail transit system kept the old trains running despite warnings in 2006, said Debbie Hersman of the National Transportation Safety Board." "Hersman said investigators expect to recover recorders from the train that was struck. The train that triggered the collision was part of an old fleet that was not equipped with the devices, which can provide valuable information to determine why the crash occurred, Hersman said. She told The Associated Press that the NTSB had warned of safety problems and recommended the old fleet be phased out or retrofitted to make it better withstand a crash. Neither was done, she said, which the NTSB considered "unacceptable."" Our leaders at work.

06-23-2009, 10:17 AM	#4
joelnwil Major Inhabitant Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Silver Spring MD Posts: 128	"The leading train had stopped because it was waiting for another train to leave the Fort Totten station, officials said. It was unclear why the following train had not received the signal to stop as well, or why the operator did not stop her train manually when she saw the tracks blocked ahead of her, officials said. Passengers on the second train said it did not slow down at all before impact. "There was no attempt at braking. We just slammed into whatever we slammed into," passenger Theroza Doshi told Reuters." http://www.reuters.com/article/topNe...55L69G20090623 Not paying attention. Bad leadership in providing obsolete equipment (the board is appointed by our glorious representatives), and bad operator.

06-23-2009, 08:22 PM	#11
tw Read? I only know how to write. Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 11,933	Compare this to a crash nearby the Cellar in a place called Warminster. That is a single track. In that case, the signaling system did something the train engineer never saw happen. She kept calling for clarification even though the light said go. But her calls went unanswered. So she refused to move for over 5 minutes. As anyone knows, everything must always have a backup. The backup did not work. So she did what responsible people do: assume the worst and take appropriate caution. Well, another train was racing towards her. Since she was stopped, the damage and dead were minimal. Do you have the necessary attitude? Do you always set the parking brake - or so hate humanity as to trust that silly little pin triggered by a transmission in park? Same concept. How many will be so critical of an engineer now killed in the crash - rather than admit they too are just as irresponsible?

06-23-2009, 09:48 PM	#12
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	I'm not sure that's exactly how it works over here Els. If I'm right, Zen is refering to a recent election campaign here in Qld. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

06-23-2009, 09:50 PM	#13
Beestie -◊\|≡·∙■·∙≡\|◊- Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Parts unknown. Posts: 4,081	Well when the system can't even get enough ridership to support itself then money has to come from somewhere else. Metro doesn't belong to DC, MD or VA so no elected leader is truly directly responsible for providing for it nor is the tax base of either jurisdiction. Fares and parking are already too high so there really isn't much they can do. Besides, I'm not about to blame the "sensors" when you can see from a mile away that you are about to run into something big that ain't moving. __________________ ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦

06-23-2009, 10:04 PM	#14
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	Until an autopsy is performed that shows the driver was conscious just before the crash, I think it's not appropriate to blame this on the dead driver. Maybe she was slumped over in her seat having just had a heart attack. Maybe she tried to stop, but the brakes didn't work. Nobody knows at this point.

06-23-2009, 10:28 PM	#15
sugarpop Professor Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: the edge of the abyss Posts: 1,947	How about this, the companies who operate the stuff should be REQUIRED to upgrade it every so often, at their own expense. Like, power companies should be responsible for their own upgrades. Why the hell should "we the people" have to pay for this shit with our tax dollars when we also have to pay for the service? It's just WRONG. And once the infrastructure is upgraded, with our tax dollars, you can bet your ass the power companies will raise the rates for the "new and improved" service.

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