My windows box is coughing up blood - Page 2

mbpark · 08-28-2002, 10:52 PM

I had the same issue with 2K and a Nvidia card here when I got the machine running 2K for some reason. I never checked for a patch. Does one exist?

Mitch

Tobiasly · 08-28-2002, 11:32 PM

Tony, did you upgrade DirectX to the latest? Also, when you say you upgraded to Win2K, did you do a fresh install like you mentioned and then move stuff over/reinstall, or did you just upgrade?

For my money, I'd never upgrade a Windows OS. Fresh install is the only way to go. I'd just never really be comfortable with whatever crap it left laying around, and I'd never be sure that something isn't set like it should be because of something I had installed on a prior OS.

Of course, I'm prolly more anal about this than most people.

Undertoad · 08-29-2002, 08:39 AM

I "just upgraded". I know this is likely to cause more problems, but I was trying to solve problems at the time, and at least it has solved my other woes.

I didn't do anything to DirectX because... I should think I've got the latest already? Practically every DirectX game reinstalls it, eh?

There isn't a UT patch but this game is so old that I'm considering just dropping it from my routine and waiting for UT2003, the demo for which is due out "any day now".

I have not yet installed SP3. I guess I should do that.

mbpark · 08-29-2002, 09:06 AM

DirectX has to be installed apart from games.

I am running 8.1 now. However, you SHOULD run SP3. Running Windows 2000 without a service pack is suicide.

Mitch

juju · 08-29-2002, 11:40 AM

My wife's Windows 2000 machine has this weird problem where it just takes forever to load certain programs. I don't understand what it could be. It's like, when you try to load IE or Mozilla for the first time, the computer gets so slow while it's loading the program that you can't do anything else. It takes longer to load the program than it should. Then, it goes back to normal speed again. And if you close the program and re-load it, it loads it at normal speed.

Anyone have any idea what this might be? The stats are: Duron 1000mhz, 256mb RAM, ECS K7S5A motherboard, SP3. So, it should be fast. Programs should just pop right up. Instead they practically lock up the machine the first time you try to load them.

08-29-2002, 03:19 PM

Your hard drive is having trouble. It's probably set to spin down way too frequently and so it spins up when it's got to read a program from the disk (load it the first time). This takes a good long time. After that, the program's in memory so it pops right up. I'd check your energy saver settings and see when the hard drive is set to spin down. Set it to "never", reboot and see if you still have the same problem.

Anyway, I'm confident it has to do with reading the program off the hard disk and into memory. I gar-on-tee it!

mbpark · 08-29-2002, 03:34 PM

Windows does reserve a good chunk of RAM for System Cache, where it puts DLLs when they are frequently used.

So therefore, check your hard drive controller drivers, and get the newest ones. Make sure the hard drive is in DMA mode, since some drivers, especially Microsoft's default for Windows 2000, will chuck your HDs into PIO mode.

The reason it loads faster the second time is because Windows 2000 is caching most of the critical DLLs. You are loading less data, so it takes less time.

Mitch

juju · 08-30-2002, 03:26 PM

I think you're right that it must be the hard drive.

I checked the energy saver setting and that wasn't it. I suspect the hard drive might not be in DMA mode, although Windows says that it is. I'm going to try looking into that some more when I have time. Perhaps i'll even download a benchmarking program.

Do you have to have a special hard drive cable to get Ultra DMA mode?

mbpark · 08-30-2002, 03:53 PM

It's a combination of an 80-conductor cable and the needed drivers.

I'd first look for the drivers

Mitch

juju · 08-30-2002, 04:52 PM

What's an 80-conductor cable?

MaggieL · 08-30-2002, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by juju
What's an 80-conductor cable?

It's a 40-conductor cable with balanced shelding provided by the other 40 conductors. Has better noise immunity and reactve characteristics at high speeds. See http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/if/id...Cable80-c.html

jaguar · 08-30-2002, 05:17 PM

otherwise refered to as EIDE cables or ATA-66/100/133?

Tobiasly · 08-31-2002, 01:33 AM

You can tell them apart from the older cables because the connector that connects to the motherboard is blue, the one that connects to the master drive is black, and the one that connects to the slave drive is grey.

If you have a hard drive that's been made in the past 3 or 4 years, you need one of those cables.

jaguar · 08-31-2002, 07:49 AM

Don't *need* but its a good idea to have. Worth noting that if you have a CD-ROM on the same cable/bus its going to have the same speed regardless.

Undertoad · 09-06-2002, 10:42 AM

OK! I've worked on the box a bit more, still have some weirdness though.

Again, I have a GF 4 ti4200 video card from Abit. I found that when I install Nvidia's drivers, version 30.82, performance in 3d gaming goes completely to shit, like 1 frame per second. When I install a version 29.42, available on Abit's site, performance is excellent at 1600x1200x32 in Ghost Recon and still poor in Unreal Tourney at 1024x768x16.

08-28-2002, 10:52 PM	#16
mbpark Lecturer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Carmel, Indiana Posts: 761	Tony, have had same issue I had the same issue with 2K and a Nvidia card here when I got the machine running 2K for some reason. I never checked for a patch. Does one exist? Mitch

08-29-2002, 09:06 AM	#19
mbpark Lecturer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Carmel, Indiana Posts: 761	DirectX - not 2K or XP DirectX has to be installed apart from games. I am running 8.1 now. However, you SHOULD run SP3. Running Windows 2000 without a service pack is suicide. Mitch

08-29-2002, 03:34 PM	#22
mbpark Lecturer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Carmel, Indiana Posts: 761	and since Windows has a System Cache.... Windows does reserve a good chunk of RAM for System Cache, where it puts DLLs when they are frequently used. So therefore, check your hard drive controller drivers, and get the newest ones. Make sure the hard drive is in DMA mode, since some drivers, especially Microsoft's default for Windows 2000, will chuck your HDs into PIO mode. The reason it loads faster the second time is because Windows 2000 is caching most of the critical DLLs. You are loading less data, so it takes less time. Mitch

08-30-2002, 03:26 PM	#23
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	I think you're right that it must be the hard drive. I checked the energy saver setting and that wasn't it. I suspect the hard drive might not be in DMA mode, although Windows says that it is. I'm going to try looking into that some more when I have time. Perhaps i'll even download a benchmarking program. Do you have to have a special hard drive cable to get Ultra DMA mode? Last edited by juju; 08-30-2002 at 04:52 PM.

08-30-2002, 03:53 PM	#24
mbpark Lecturer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Carmel, Indiana Posts: 761	DMA Mode It's a combination of an 80-conductor cable and the needed drivers. I'd first look for the drivers Mitch

08-28-2002, 11:32 PM	#17
Tobiasly hot Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Jeffersonville, IN (near Louisville) Posts: 892	Tony, did you upgrade DirectX to the latest? Also, when you say you upgraded to Win2K, did you do a fresh install like you mentioned and then move stuff over/reinstall, or did you just upgrade? For my money, I'd never upgrade a Windows OS. Fresh install is the only way to go. I'd just never really be comfortable with whatever crap it left laying around, and I'd never be sure that something isn't set like it should be because of something I had installed on a prior OS. Of course, I'm prolly more anal about this than most people.

08-29-2002, 08:39 AM	#18
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	I "just upgraded". I know this is likely to cause more problems, but I was trying to solve problems at the time, and at least it has solved my other woes. I didn't do anything to DirectX because... I should think I've got the latest already? Practically every DirectX game reinstalls it, eh? There isn't a UT patch but this game is so old that I'm considering just dropping it from my routine and waiting for UT2003, the demo for which is due out "any day now". I have not yet installed SP3. I guess I should do that.

08-29-2002, 11:40 AM	#20
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	My wife's Windows 2000 machine has this weird problem where it just takes forever to load certain programs. I don't understand what it could be. It's like, when you try to load IE or Mozilla for the first time, the computer gets so slow while it's loading the program that you can't do anything else. It takes longer to load the program than it should. Then, it goes back to normal speed again. And if you close the program and re-load it, it loads it at normal speed. Anyone have any idea what this might be? The stats are: Duron 1000mhz, 256mb RAM, ECS K7S5A motherboard, SP3. So, it should be fast. Programs should just pop right up. Instead they practically lock up the machine the first time you try to load them.

08-29-2002, 03:19 PM	#21
dave Guest Posts: n/a	Your hard drive is having trouble. It's probably set to spin down way too frequently and so it spins up when it's got to read a program from the disk (load it the first time). This takes a good long time. After that, the program's in memory so it pops right up. I'd check your energy saver settings and see when the hard drive is set to spin down. Set it to "never", reboot and see if you still have the same problem. Anyway, I'm confident it has to do with reading the program off the hard disk and into memory. I gar-on-tee it!

08-30-2002, 04:52 PM	#25
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	What's an 80-conductor cable?

08-30-2002, 05:17 PM	#27
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	otherwise refered to as EIDE cables or ATA-66/100/133? __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

08-31-2002, 01:33 AM	#28
Tobiasly hot Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Jeffersonville, IN (near Louisville) Posts: 892	You can tell them apart from the older cables because the connector that connects to the motherboard is blue, the one that connects to the master drive is black, and the one that connects to the slave drive is grey. If you have a hard drive that's been made in the past 3 or 4 years, you need one of those cables.

08-31-2002, 07:49 AM	#29
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	Don't need but its a good idea to have. Worth noting that if you have a CD-ROM on the same cable/bus its going to have the same speed regardless. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

09-06-2002, 10:42 AM	#30
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	OK! I've worked on the box a bit more, still have some weirdness though. Again, I have a GF 4 ti4200 video card from Abit. I found that when I install Nvidia's drivers, version 30.82, performance in 3d gaming goes completely to shit, like 1 frame per second. When I install a version 29.42, available on Abit's site, performance is excellent at 1600x1200x32 in Ghost Recon and still poor in Unreal Tourney at 1024x768x16.

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