The American form of Government - Page 2

TGRR · 02-14-2009, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

Propadanda for what purpose? That doesn't even make sense.

Conspiracy theory much?

Propaganda for the libertarian pov, of course.

There is no rule saying that propaganda can only be put forth by the ruling party.

Shawnee123 · 02-14-2009, 08:17 PM

So you're saying that, after seeing that video, I might change my entire ideology?

I saw it as a theory, another pov, and hardly akin to what I might see as evil prop.

But what do I know?

BigV · 02-14-2009, 08:38 PM

I did not click the link and watch the video. But I understand and agree with TGGR's point that there is a limit to what I am willing to put into my head, just as there's a limit to what I'll put into my body. What's more, all of you here are the same as me in this respect, albeit with different levels of what is taken in.

An easy point in the evaluation of the video producer's point of view is at the beginning. The American Form of Government, right there in the title. Some will read that and decide they've had enough, moving on, thankyouverymuch. They've made their decision about how much of that message they wish to take in--very little. Others will read the title, watch the video, and decide that they've gotten all they want of the message, and not bother seeking more. TGGR has done exactly the same thing, but the point at which he made his decision was part the way through the video--click.

We all do this. We all regulate what we take in. And there's certainly plenty of room for spirited discussion about the quality and the quantity of that content. I read and listen to the news a lot. Some people think I give too much attention to the news. Just ask SonofV as we ride together and negotiate what radio station to listen to.

The proverb "Don't judge a book by its cover" has merit. But it is possible to judge a book by a short summary.

xoxoxoBruce · 02-14-2009, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigV

And there's certainly plenty of room for spirited discussion about the quality and the quantity of that content.

Not if you don't know what the content is.

Shawnee123 · 02-14-2009, 08:43 PM

I, myself, can't handle vague opinions from people who didn't bother to watch.

How very shortsighted. In fact, I'll go so far to say that those opinions from people who are forming them without any knowledge have gone completely irrelevant for me. Never a post I will take into account from those, again.

TGRR · 02-14-2009, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

I, myself, can't handle vague opinions from people who didn't bother to watch.

I did watch. Until the bullshit got too thick.

It's interesting how you conveniently ignore that fact.

Meh.

BigV · 02-14-2009, 09:16 PM

My point, and I thing TGGR's point is, that there comes a time when *enough* is known to make an actionable decision.

There are a million topics about which I know very little. Most of those topics have a depth of content that I haven't plumbed, that I haven't even skimmed. Some of those topics I disregard because I'm not interested in what I see in the title. Some I ignore because of who is talking about it. Others I don't bother with because the little I've seen is dumb. But in all those cases, we could have a talk about how much is too much and what is crap and what is not--even knowing little about the content.

Are you suggesting to me otherwise? Does your world have no gossips? No busybodies? No clueless bosses talking out their asses? No salespeople promising stuff they don't know about? No relatives that know more about your life and how you should live it than you do? Really? Then I'd like a ticket to your world, please. Because in my world, people talk all the time about stuff they don't know about. I'd like to vacation in xoB land. It would be quite refreshing, I imagine.

xoxoxoBruce · 02-14-2009, 09:29 PM

Yeah, I got that. But you said;

Quote:

And there's certainly plenty of room for spirited discussion about the quality and the quantity of that content.

My response is, there is too much spirited discussion by people that don't know what the fuck they're talking about, because they couldn't be bothered to find out what the content is, or decided they knew by some magical powers. I see it in the media, the real world, and here in the Cellar, people who become an expert from a sound bite.

TGRR · 02-14-2009, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Yeah, I got that. But you said; My response is, there is too much spirited discussion by people that don't know what the fuck they're talking about, because they couldn't be bothered to find out what the content is, or decided they knew by some magical powers. I see it in the media, the real world, and here in the Cellar, people who become an expert from a sound bite.

Once I hear someone lie to me, I don't need any further information from them.

tw · 02-15-2009, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I see it in the media, the real world, and here in the Cellar, people who become an expert from a sound bite.

Those are not always the problem. The problem are the few who only have a sound byte and get attached only to that sound byte. They cannot expand beyond and embrace a larger picture.

Many with soundbyte knowledge use it as bait to attract larger knowledge. Not everyone does that.

classicman · 02-15-2009, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw

TThe problem are the few who only have a sound byte and get attached only to that sound byte. They cannot expand beyond and embrace a larger picture.

cheap/They respond to polls a lot too/shot

Flint · 02-15-2009, 09:45 PM

What do they call that thing where you carry 1,000 pounds of your most heavy-handed bias into every exchange of information, thus allowing you to make instant snap judgments based on almost no tangible informaton whatsoever, thus guaranteeing that your body of knowledge remains a stagnant, static platform from which you can shout hollow proclamations of superiority?

Shawnee123 · 02-14-2009, 09:31 PM

There are many things I'd rather not see or hear. But I don't comment on content if I can't be bothered to check it out.

Really, it could have warranted spirited discussion, from which I hoped to glean some ideas. The horsey side blinds don't impress me.

monster · 02-14-2009, 09:36 PM

OK,so finished reading the rest of the posts after that... if you didn't watch the whole thing, you probably should before commenting further. Yeah, it's propaganda, but it is well worded and in the main summarizes stuff pretty well.

But then...

it goes on to give an example of democracy vs a rebublic in a Wild West scenario.... and it turn into utter BS at that point.

monster · 02-14-2009, 09:41 PM

Democracy would not have lynched the guy on the spot-that's scaremongering BS. Just because all present were in favor of hanging the guy, that does not mean the majority of socity is. there would have been a trial, same as with the "republic" The video claimed Democracy but showed Oligarcy.

02-14-2009, 08:17 PM	#2
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	So you're saying that, after seeing that video, I might change my entire ideology? I saw it as a theory, another pov, and hardly akin to what I might see as evil prop. But what do I know? __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

02-14-2009, 08:38 PM	#3
BigV Goon Squad Leader Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 27,063	I did not click the link and watch the video. But I understand and agree with TGGR's point that there is a limit to what I am willing to put into my head, just as there's a limit to what I'll put into my body. What's more, all of you here are the same as me in this respect, albeit with different levels of what is taken in. An easy point in the evaluation of the video producer's point of view is at the beginning. The American Form of Government, right there in the title. Some will read that and decide they've had enough, moving on, thankyouverymuch. They've made their decision about how much of that message they wish to take in--very little. Others will read the title, watch the video, and decide that they've gotten all they want of the message, and not bother seeking more. TGGR has done exactly the same thing, but the point at which he made his decision was part the way through the video--click. We all do this. We all regulate what we take in. And there's certainly plenty of room for spirited discussion about the quality and the quantity of that content. I read and listen to the news a lot. Some people think I give too much attention to the news. Just ask SonofV as we ride together and negotiate what radio station to listen to. The proverb "Don't judge a book by its cover" has merit. But it is possible to judge a book by a short summary. __________________ Be Just and Fear Not.

02-14-2009, 08:43 PM	#5
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	I, myself, can't handle vague opinions from people who didn't bother to watch. How very shortsighted. In fact, I'll go so far to say that those opinions from people who are forming them without any knowledge have gone completely irrelevant for me. Never a post I will take into account from those, again. __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

02-14-2009, 09:16 PM	#7
BigV Goon Squad Leader Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 27,063	My point, and I thing TGGR's point is, that there comes a time when enough is known to make an actionable decision. There are a million topics about which I know very little. Most of those topics have a depth of content that I haven't plumbed, that I haven't even skimmed. Some of those topics I disregard because I'm not interested in what I see in the title. Some I ignore because of who is talking about it. Others I don't bother with because the little I've seen is dumb. But in all those cases, we could have a talk about how much is too much and what is crap and what is not--even knowing little about the content. Are you suggesting to me otherwise? Does your world have no gossips? No busybodies? No clueless bosses talking out their asses? No salespeople promising stuff they don't know about? No relatives that know more about your life and how you should live it than you do? Really? Then I'd like a ticket to your world, please. Because in my world, people talk all the time about stuff they don't know about. I'd like to vacation in xoB land. It would be quite refreshing, I imagine. __________________ Be Just and Fear Not.

02-15-2009, 09:45 PM	#12
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	What do they call that thing where you carry 1,000 pounds of your most heavy-handed bias into every exchange of information, thus allowing you to make instant snap judgments based on almost no tangible informaton whatsoever, thus guaranteeing that your body of knowledge remains a stagnant, static platform from which you can shout hollow proclamations of superiority? __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

02-14-2009, 09:31 PM	#13
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	There are many things I'd rather not see or hear. But I don't comment on content if I can't be bothered to check it out. Really, it could have warranted spirited discussion, from which I hoped to glean some ideas. The horsey side blinds don't impress me. __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

02-14-2009, 09:36 PM	#14
monster I hear them call the tide Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Perpetual Chaos Posts: 30,852	OK,so finished reading the rest of the posts after that... if you didn't watch the whole thing, you probably should before commenting further. Yeah, it's propaganda, but it is well worded and in the main summarizes stuff pretty well. But then... it goes on to give an example of democracy vs a rebublic in a Wild West scenario.... and it turn into utter BS at that point. __________________ The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity Amelia Earhart

02-14-2009, 09:41 PM	#15
monster I hear them call the tide Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Perpetual Chaos Posts: 30,852	Democracy would not have lynched the guy on the spot-that's scaremongering BS. Just because all present were in favor of hanging the guy, that does not mean the majority of socity is. there would have been a trial, same as with the "republic" The video claimed Democracy but showed Oligarcy. __________________ The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity Amelia Earhart

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