The mortgage - Page 2

lumberjim · 10-30-2008, 12:56 PM

It's the actually salespeople that were so aggressively marketing home equity loans during those years of bliss lending. they got paid on the margin, and by the contracts they closed.

likewise, the salespeople that sell cars are responsible for the devaluation of american cars. i mean, they sold so many, that there are more cars than demand requires, hence the falling value.

it's all the fault of the evil salespeople, really. I mean....aren't we all guaranteed protection from 'bad luck' in America? I mean...she was a nice lady, and she needed the loan, and then something went wrong with the market. Clearly not solely her fault.

But, it's an imperfect world. screws fall out all the time.

tw · 10-30-2008, 01:17 PM

Do we blame the mortgage broker or the mortgage applicant? Neither. Such questions are how the guilty get off.

Did predatory mortgage brokers create problems by intentionally lying to applicants? Yes. Either they are innocent or guilty. Answer: guilty.

Did many applicant who signed up for ARMs create their own problem? Answer: guilty.

It is not one or the other. Each party is either innocent or guilty regardless of what the other party did.

lumberjim · 10-30-2008, 01:21 PM

if i sell you 10 feet of rope, and you are unable to hang yourself with it, but the next rope vendor sells you 20ft... and you succeed, is it the second rope vendor's fault that you hung yourself?

LabRat · 10-30-2008, 01:30 PM

no. the chair manufacturer is liable for making a product that falls over too easily.

classicman · 10-30-2008, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Someone gave her some very bad advice. One part of the equation that got us into this mess, predators.

That would be the greed I brought up and was chastised for. Whatever, I still agree with you ignorance and greed - nothing new there.

tw · 10-30-2008, 05:28 PM

An effective solution to the mortgage meltdown is to establish a new mortgage where the homeowner can refinance even though he is technically bankrupt - even though he owes more on the house then it is really worth. This is not easily done without massive fraud. The details and conditions to qualify a homeowner for such a rescue plan requires very careful underwriting.

Maybe a decade or two later, the home might actually be what the homeowner owes. The homeowner would either break even or maybe reap a small profit.

Why is this so necessary? Abandon homes fall to something like 30% of their value. If banks held those mortgages, banks often would forgive late payments. But mortgage held as equities cannot do this. Just another reason by the ARMs are so destructive to homeowners, the community, and the equity markets.

A solution. But can it actually be implemented without massive fraud? Well, to do such rescues requires cooperation from one of the most easily corrupt industry in any economy - the financial industry. I have little faith that proper rules can be created to make this work because so many in the finance industry work only for a profit and believe greed is good. Screw the product and the purpose of their industry. That attitude (so common among salesmen) is too widespread which is why massive regulation in the finance industry is always required.

Aliantha · 10-30-2008, 05:38 PM

How much did interest rates actually go up?

My personal opinion is that if you can't wear a rate increase of at least 5%, you shouldn't take out a variable rate loan. D and I discussed this when we took out our mortgage a few years ago.

When interest rates started going up by 1/4 percent increments here, people started carrying on after the first one.

If your budget is that tight, you shouldn't be getting the loan.

I just don't understand why people think things are always going to stay the same. I think it's obvious that they don't and so we have tried to plan for all contingencies. It's possible that we'll still get into trouble, but I feel confident that if that happens, we'll be among the last the fall, not the first.

TheMercenary · 10-30-2008, 05:40 PM

Ali, did you guys have the same bubble in the housing market over there?

Aliantha · 10-30-2008, 05:45 PM

absolutely. We did ok out of it personally though, although not as well as I'd have liked. We purchased a home a bit over 2 years ago and sold it earlier this year and made a profit of just under 100k, but if we'd put it on the market about 2 months sooner (as I wanted to do) our profit would have been twice that.

All in all though, it was good, and allowed us to get a bigger house to accomodate our two growing almost teenage boys and the new one on the way.

We were lucky, and I think reasonably wise. We could have done better, but we didn't do badly, and we learned some valuable lessons. (well, Dazza did. lol Mainly that when I tell him it's time to sell, it really is time to sell.)

TheMercenary · 10-30-2008, 05:47 PM

I remember when you moved and were house hunting. You need to do a new video tour. I loved the last one.

Aliantha · 10-30-2008, 05:50 PM

Yeah I've been thinking about that. I might do one next week. Dazza had the camera in PNG for the last month.

Actually, he's heading over your way soon. Speaking at a conference in Miami.

TheMercenary · 10-30-2008, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliantha

Yeah I've been thinking about that. I might do one next week. Dazza had the camera in PNG for the last month.

Actually, he's heading over your way soon. Speaking at a conference in Miami.

Wow, I wish I was closer, I would show him around Savannah. Miami is a bit of a reach.

TheMercenary · 10-30-2008, 07:35 PM

AGI get's another bail out check...

http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/20...fed/index.html

Cicero · 10-30-2008, 09:27 PM

Maybe you should get a job serving latte's or something UT? Would that disqualify you?

Undertoad · 10-30-2008, 09:32 PM

If it would help I surely would Cic!

10-30-2008, 12:56 PM	#16
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	It's the actually salespeople that were so aggressively marketing home equity loans during those years of bliss lending. they got paid on the margin, and by the contracts they closed. likewise, the salespeople that sell cars are responsible for the devaluation of american cars. i mean, they sold so many, that there are more cars than demand requires, hence the falling value. it's all the fault of the evil salespeople, really. I mean....aren't we all guaranteed protection from 'bad luck' in America? I mean...she was a nice lady, and she needed the loan, and then something went wrong with the market. Clearly not solely her fault. But, it's an imperfect world. screws fall out all the time. __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

10-30-2008, 01:21 PM	#18
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	if i sell you 10 feet of rope, and you are unable to hang yourself with it, but the next rope vendor sells you 20ft... and you succeed, is it the second rope vendor's fault that you hung yourself? __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

10-30-2008, 01:30 PM	#19
LabRat twatfaced two legged bumhole Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 3,143	no. the chair manufacturer is liable for making a product that falls over too easily. __________________ Strength does not come from how much weight you can lift, or how many miles you can run. It comes from knowing that you set a goal, and rose to the challenge. Strength comes from within.

10-30-2008, 05:38 PM	#22
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	How much did interest rates actually go up? My personal opinion is that if you can't wear a rate increase of at least 5%, you shouldn't take out a variable rate loan. D and I discussed this when we took out our mortgage a few years ago. When interest rates started going up by 1/4 percent increments here, people started carrying on after the first one. If your budget is that tight, you shouldn't be getting the loan. I just don't understand why people think things are always going to stay the same. I think it's obvious that they don't and so we have tried to plan for all contingencies. It's possible that we'll still get into trouble, but I feel confident that if that happens, we'll be among the last the fall, not the first. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

10-30-2008, 05:40 PM	#23
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 21,393	Ali, did you guys have the same bubble in the housing market over there? __________________ Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012!

10-30-2008, 01:17 PM	#17
tw Read? I only know how to write. Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 11,933	Do we blame the mortgage broker or the mortgage applicant? Neither. Such questions are how the guilty get off. Did predatory mortgage brokers create problems by intentionally lying to applicants? Yes. Either they are innocent or guilty. Answer: guilty. Did many applicant who signed up for ARMs create their own problem? Answer: guilty. It is not one or the other. Each party is either innocent or guilty regardless of what the other party did.

10-30-2008, 05:28 PM	#21
tw Read? I only know how to write. Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 11,933	An effective solution to the mortgage meltdown is to establish a new mortgage where the homeowner can refinance even though he is technically bankrupt - even though he owes more on the house then it is really worth. This is not easily done without massive fraud. The details and conditions to qualify a homeowner for such a rescue plan requires very careful underwriting. Maybe a decade or two later, the home might actually be what the homeowner owes. The homeowner would either break even or maybe reap a small profit. Why is this so necessary? Abandon homes fall to something like 30% of their value. If banks held those mortgages, banks often would forgive late payments. But mortgage held as equities cannot do this. Just another reason by the ARMs are so destructive to homeowners, the community, and the equity markets. A solution. But can it actually be implemented without massive fraud? Well, to do such rescues requires cooperation from one of the most easily corrupt industry in any economy - the financial industry. I have little faith that proper rules can be created to make this work because so many in the finance industry work only for a profit and believe greed is good. Screw the product and the purpose of their industry. That attitude (so common among salesmen) is too widespread which is why massive regulation in the finance industry is always required.

10-30-2008, 05:45 PM	#24
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	absolutely. We did ok out of it personally though, although not as well as I'd have liked. We purchased a home a bit over 2 years ago and sold it earlier this year and made a profit of just under 100k, but if we'd put it on the market about 2 months sooner (as I wanted to do) our profit would have been twice that. All in all though, it was good, and allowed us to get a bigger house to accomodate our two growing almost teenage boys and the new one on the way. We were lucky, and I think reasonably wise. We could have done better, but we didn't do badly, and we learned some valuable lessons. (well, Dazza did. lol Mainly that when I tell him it's time to sell, it really is time to sell.) __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

10-30-2008, 05:47 PM	#25
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 21,393	I remember when you moved and were house hunting. You need to do a new video tour. I loved the last one. __________________ Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012!

10-30-2008, 05:50 PM	#26
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	Yeah I've been thinking about that. I might do one next week. Dazza had the camera in PNG for the last month. Actually, he's heading over your way soon. Speaking at a conference in Miami. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

10-30-2008, 07:35 PM	#28
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 21,393	AGI get's another bail out check... http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/20...fed/index.html __________________ Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012!

10-30-2008, 09:27 PM	#29
Cicero Looking forward to open mic night. Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New Mexico Posts: 5,148	Maybe you should get a job serving latte's or something UT? Would that disqualify you? __________________ Show me a sane man, and I will cure him for you.- Carl Jung

10-30-2008, 09:32 PM	#30
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	If it would help I surely would Cic!

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