Loyalty Oath

[xoxoxoBruce]

But if that teacher tries to promote anarchy to the students, through his/her teaching position, the oath is a gotcha. Termination with no convoluted excuses.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

But if that teacher tries to promote anarchy to the students, through his/her teaching position,

I think that is goal of Berkley.

[Cloud]

I went to Berkeley. Dropped out, too.

is anyone surprised?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Depends on why you dropped out.

[Cloud]

I entered college at 16, thousands of miles from my family and anyone I knew, got depressed (really, horribly depressed and didn't know enough to get help), and couldn't finish my classes. Went for 12 months, but sometimes--bigger is not better.

Eventually I got my degree elsewhere--that just was not a good year for me.

Does that make a difference in your assessment?

[xoxoxoBruce]

No assessing, you is what you post.
Just wondered if you were turned off by the Berkeley attitude/atmosphere, or personal matters, caused you to flee.

[Sundae]

BTW - if tutors are really promoting anarchy, would they really have a class to tutor after the first semester?

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by Cloud

first, I find it weird that they have to swear to defend the constitutions against enemies (and not the country or state itself).

Hey really good point. Sometimes I am surprised at how smart Cloud can be.


Aren't you supposed to be protecting the virtues and ideas written inside the document, and not the document itself though? Is it really that literal?

[Cloud]

Gee, thanks.

I think.

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by Cloud

first, I find it weird that they have to swear to defend the constitutions against enemies (and not the country or state itself). How do you do that? fend off bugs and humidity?

That's because our founding fathers didn't trust the state, or what the state might become. In their minds, it was possible for the state itself to become the enemy. Remember that the founding fathers of the United States were rebels (insurgents).

From Jefferson's 1st Inaugural Address

During the contest of opinion through which we have passed the animation of discussions and of exertions has sometimes worn an aspect which might impose on strangers unused to think freely and to speak and to write what they think; but this being now decided by the voice of the nation, announced according to the rules of the Constitution, all will, of course, arrange themselves under the will of the law, and unite in common efforts for the common good. All, too, will bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression.

Jefferson considered a situation where the majority (or state) could be an instrument of oppression.

[Cloud]

Interesting point. Let me think about that for a while.

[TheMercenary]

Good stuff Rich. That is sort of how I remember it as well. But we have developed into a different animal since then. I can't buy that we shouldn't or can't morph a bit along the way. Agree?