Transgender Second Grader - Page 2

Pie · 02-18-2008, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by euphoriatheory

The one thing that concerns me in cases like this is that 2nd graders seem a little young to fully understand the ramifications of changing gender... If you don't know anything about sex yet, are you really equipped to make that decision? Maybe this kid IS, maybe he'll never regret it.... or maybe in 6 or 7 years, he'll just realize he's gay and maybe likes to cross-dress, and not that he considers himself female.

Well, it's not like they're looking into radical gender reassignment surgery. He's changing the way he dresses and the name he is addressed by. That's hardly cast in stone... If "Joe" becomes "Josephine" becomes "Joe" again when he's 16, what's wrong with that? He'll have some strange childhood pics, but then hey, who doesn't?

TheMercenary · 02-18-2008, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC

The child obviously has a very clear idea of how he/she wishes to express him/herself. I can't see that this is the parents' 'fault' in some way. It's not unknown for a child to have these kind of gender identity issues at such a young age, and frankly I get the impression the parents are handling it in about as open minded and fair way as is possible. Would you prefer that they enforce their own concept of his/her gender identity onto their child in order to help him/her fit in to school? Those days, hopefully, have gone, along with taking young children who've shown proclivities towards homosexuality to the psychiatrist for a 'cure'.

In terms of the child ending up as a punching bag for bullies....you can send a child who seemingly is absolutely just like all the other children in their cohort to school, and their classmates find something abotu them that's 'different'. It might be something as small as the way they walk, or a slight astigmatism in their eye....you could send a child with glasses to school, braces on their teeth, freckles or eczema, or a little extra weight on their belly and all these things could make them a punchbag at school. There may be no definable reason that you or I could isolate. They could just have the misfortune to come to the attention of the wrong kid at the wrong time and be marked out for the rest of their school years as prime target no.1.

I don't buy that this kid is not at greater risk than the normal examples you site. I am well aware of the normal situations. This is not normal.

DanaC · 02-18-2008, 05:20 PM

And enforcing the 'correct' and acceptable gender identity onto the child would make him normal? If he's this insistent on his identity it will show in a myriad of ways. The way he walks the way he talks, the children he chooses to play with, the games he chooses to play. If he is identifying himself as female he will act female regardless of the clothes he wears or the toilet he uses. Kids pick up on that and are just as likely to bully him for it if he's wearing trousers as they if he's wearing a dress.

TheMercenary · 02-18-2008, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC

And enforcing the 'correct' and acceptable gender identity onto the child would make him normal? If he's this insistent on his identity it will show in a myriad of ways. The way he walks the way he talks, the children he chooses to play with, the games he chooses to play. If he is identifying himself as female he will act female regardless of the clothes he wears or the toilet he uses. Kids pick up on that and are just as likely to bully him for it if he's wearing trousers as they if he's wearing a dress.

No doubt. But I would not condone it. Someone is going to pay dearly if anything happens to this child because of the desire to let it dress and act as it pleases. Political correctness gone wild.

jinx · 02-18-2008, 05:26 PM

I was in line at the grocery store the other day and the woman in front of me was explaining that the razors she was buying were for her 10yo daughter - because the kids at school gave her such a hard time because of the dark hair on her legs and arms, and her daughter was so distraught about it, mom decided to shave them.
Between the psychological damage that kids cause each other and the shootings that result, I really wonder how "normal" it is to have large populations of the same age kids crammed together each day with not much to do other than terrorize each other...

Anyway, there was a tranny at my kids old school. H/she was in HS, but the school was set up so that all the kids were together a lot thruout the day. My kids understood that sometimes a big guy named Amy liked to wear dresses and that was pretty much the end of it. No big deal at all. (my daughter had a lot more questions about arm shaving than boys in dresses) I don't understand why this kid needs a private bathroom anymore than any other kid though - but if that's what it takes for a school to get them, then more power to her/him.

theotherguy · 02-18-2008, 05:35 PM

I very seriously doubt that a 2nd grader is that self-aware. Kids act these things out. They want to be called a different name or want to be a different species, or inanimate objects. I have a friend who's child would ONLY respond to the name "Maxipad" for over a year. It was one of the funniest things I have ever seen. My little boy ran around for awhile saying he was a little girl and not a boy. We didn't feel the need to run with it or away from it. HE IS JUST A LITTLE KID! My niece wanted to be a dog for several years. Actually cried about it on several occations. They do and say all kinds of crazy things. If I had to guess, this little kids has some crazy, way, way, way left of center parents who figure he must be right and ran with it. Encouraging him to go with it. I may completely wrong here, but I don't think so.

BrianR · 02-18-2008, 06:31 PM

I still need more information.

I'm assuming that the child is in therapy and the therapist agrees with this decision.

Does the school require uniforms? I remember HS vaguely and I don't remember dresses except at the prom, cheerleaders and yearbook photo day. Maybe the child will just wear womens' jeans and tops?

Where's Maggie just when we need a more informed opinion?

Brian

classicman · 02-18-2008, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Someone is going to pay dearly if anything happens to this child because of the desire to let it dress and act as it pleases. Political correctness gone wild.

lol

skysidhe · 02-18-2008, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theotherguy

I very seriously doubt that a 2nd grader is that self-aware. Kids act these things out. They want to be called a different name or want to be a different species, or inanimate objects. I have a friend who's child would ONLY respond to the name "Maxipad" for over a year. It was one of the funniest things I have ever seen. My little boy ran around for awhile saying he was a little girl and not a boy. We didn't feel the need to run with it or away from it. HE IS JUST A LITTLE KID! My niece wanted to be a dog for several years. Actually cried about it on several occations. They do and say all kinds of crazy things. If I had to guess, this little kids has some crazy, way, way, way left of center parents who figure he must be right and ran with it. Encouraging him to go with it. I may completely wrong here, but I don't think so.

I agree with you. A second grader dosn't have the cognitive ability to know WHY they are saying or feeling a certain way. It's good to let them grow into whatever they are going to be or want to do.

I know my next example is simplistic but we don't let kids draw on themselves,We make them wait for tatoos,piercings ect. Why not wait for gender and name changes too. * shrug*
Just my thoughts.

monster · 02-18-2008, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skysidhe

I know my next example is simplistic but we don't let kids draw on themselves,We make them wait for tatoos,piercings ect. Why not wait for gender and name changes too. * shrug*
Just my thoughts.

We don't let them get tattoos, but it's hard to stop them drawing on themselves using readily available washable markers -and is it really worth the fight to stop them when they are determined to do so?

Same here.

He just wants to "cross dress" and use a different name. he can always reverse the choice. No permanent changes (snip) are being made here.

Radar · 02-18-2008, 08:45 PM

I can't stand anyone who says, "What will I say to my kids about...."

Who gives a shit about what you say to your fucking kids? Your comfort in talking to your kids is less important than someone else's freedom to express themselves or be themselves.

monster · 02-18-2008, 08:50 PM

And yes, they don't necessarily know WHY they want what they want, but they know how much they want it.

Does anyone stop a determined "tom boy" these days? Why should it be any different in the reverse?

Further thought makes me wonder about the bathroom thing and how much exaggeration is going on. Round here, all elementary classrooms have a single unisex tiolet attached to each classroom. Even this would be a non-issue. But that said, apparently there are unisex toilets available and if that makes the kid happy and ready to learn and causes no-one else harm.....

monster · 02-18-2008, 08:51 PM

OMFG I agree with radar (well actually he agrees with me, but still....)

skysidhe · 02-18-2008, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monster

We don't let them get tattoos, but it's hard to stop them drawing on themselves using readily available washable markers -and is it really worth the fight to stop them when they are determined to do so?

Yeah that image and thought crossed my mind but then I thought only some of the moms will know.

Kids will be drawing on things until the end of time and if it were a thing easily conquered the kind crayola people would never have made washable markers.

binky · 02-18-2008, 09:03 PM

my almost 12 year old daughter, in 3rd grade, was sure she was supposed to have been a boy, but I think this was just tomboy behavior, and the fact that she wasn't girly like the other girls at her school. She is in 6th grade now, and just this year, rejected all her board shorts and boys tshirts. Whew!!

02-18-2008, 05:26 PM	#20
jinx Come on, cat. Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: general vicinity of Philadelphia area Posts: 7,013	I was in line at the grocery store the other day and the woman in front of me was explaining that the razors she was buying were for her 10yo daughter - because the kids at school gave her such a hard time because of the dark hair on her legs and arms, and her daughter was so distraught about it, mom decided to shave them. Between the psychological damage that kids cause each other and the shootings that result, I really wonder how "normal" it is to have large populations of the same age kids crammed together each day with not much to do other than terrorize each other... Anyway, there was a tranny at my kids old school. H/she was in HS, but the school was set up so that all the kids were together a lot thruout the day. My kids understood that sometimes a big guy named Amy liked to wear dresses and that was pretty much the end of it. No big deal at all. (my daughter had a lot more questions about arm shaving than boys in dresses) I don't understand why this kid needs a private bathroom anymore than any other kid though - but if that's what it takes for a school to get them, then more power to her/him. __________________ Crying won't help you, praying won't do you no good.

02-18-2008, 05:35 PM	#21
theotherguy no not that other guy, the other one Join Date: May 2007 Location: TN Posts: 640	I very seriously doubt that a 2nd grader is that self-aware. Kids act these things out. They want to be called a different name or want to be a different species, or inanimate objects. I have a friend who's child would ONLY respond to the name "Maxipad" for over a year. It was one of the funniest things I have ever seen. My little boy ran around for awhile saying he was a little girl and not a boy. We didn't feel the need to run with it or away from it. HE IS JUST A LITTLE KID! My niece wanted to be a dog for several years. Actually cried about it on several occations. They do and say all kinds of crazy things. If I had to guess, this little kids has some crazy, way, way, way left of center parents who figure he must be right and ran with it. Encouraging him to go with it. I may completely wrong here, but I don't think so. __________________ I should be working.

02-18-2008, 08:45 PM	#26
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	I can't stand anyone who says, "What will I say to my kids about...." Who gives a shit about what you say to your fucking kids? Your comfort in talking to your kids is less important than someone else's freedom to express themselves or be themselves. __________________ "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin

02-18-2008, 08:50 PM	#27
monster I hear them call the tide Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Perpetual Chaos Posts: 30,852	And yes, they don't necessarily know WHY they want what they want, but they know how much they want it. Does anyone stop a determined "tom boy" these days? Why should it be any different in the reverse? Further thought makes me wonder about the bathroom thing and how much exaggeration is going on. Round here, all elementary classrooms have a single unisex tiolet attached to each classroom. Even this would be a non-issue. But that said, apparently there are unisex toilets available and if that makes the kid happy and ready to learn and causes no-one else harm..... __________________ The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity Amelia Earhart

02-18-2008, 08:51 PM	#28
monster I hear them call the tide Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Perpetual Chaos Posts: 30,852	OMFG I agree with radar (well actually he agrees with me, but still....) __________________ The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity Amelia Earhart

02-18-2008, 05:20 PM	#18
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	And enforcing the 'correct' and acceptable gender identity onto the child would make him normal? If he's this insistent on his identity it will show in a myriad of ways. The way he walks the way he talks, the children he chooses to play with, the games he chooses to play. If he is identifying himself as female he will act female regardless of the clothes he wears or the toilet he uses. Kids pick up on that and are just as likely to bully him for it if he's wearing trousers as they if he's wearing a dress.

02-18-2008, 06:31 PM	#22
BrianR Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 3,338	I still need more information. I'm assuming that the child is in therapy and the therapist agrees with this decision. Does the school require uniforms? I remember HS vaguely and I don't remember dresses except at the prom, cheerleaders and yearbook photo day. Maybe the child will just wear womens' jeans and tops? Where's Maggie just when we need a more informed opinion? Brian

02-18-2008, 09:03 PM	#30
binky all hollowed out Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Ridgecrest, CA Posts: 982	my almost 12 year old daughter, in 3rd grade, was sure she was supposed to have been a boy, but I think this was just tomboy behavior, and the fact that she wasn't girly like the other girls at her school. She is in 6th grade now, and just this year, rejected all her board shorts and boys tshirts. Whew!! __________________ The meanest Mom EVER!!!!

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