Women only - Page 2

DanaC · 01-20-2008, 11:31 AM

Cic, I was referring to language classes that are gender separate for muslim women who are uncomfortable (or unable to take part) in a mixed gender class. It was a way of encouraging women with language barriers to take the opportunity to learn English.

aimeecc · 01-22-2008, 10:56 AM

I think it might depend on the funding of the swim program. If its federally or state funded, you might have issues. The fact that its held in a high school does not determine this.

I don't think boys require the same segregation as girls. For instance, a Muslim man can be in a room with a woman who is not his relative (and no others). However, a woman cannot be in a room with a man (or men) that is not her relative without another woman there.

There'a a lot of women only gyms around here. No special permits needed.

Cicero · 01-22-2008, 03:54 PM

After much deliberation in my head and discussing this with my husband-I don't think this has an easy answer. Monster is clearly between a rock and a hard place. She is taking part in a sexist agenda if she offers the classes. (Not something I expect from generous non-profits) If she doesn't offer the classes, the girls suffer again.

Do you want to use the resources of your non-profit to enhance lives? Yup. How to best do that in this situation? I don't know... Sorry...I think I put too much thought into it, and didn't come to a firm conclusion....If you have any other requests for ideas that I can't come up with...let me know!!

I'm leaning towards muslim classes (unofficially) for women and girls. You cannot promise that men will not join in on anything or just walk in by accident. Explain thatyou will not be held liable if anyone peeks at a teenage muslim girl or wife.

wolf · 01-22-2008, 04:23 PM

Check with an attorney, and then check with at least two other attorneys. If all three of them give you the same answer, you might be okay with following their advice ... what's the greater risk ... being sued for gender discrimination or being sued for religious discrimination, or rather, failing to provide religious accomodation?

Edit to add: Since the pool is on the premises of a high school, the answer is probably no because of Title IX.

Aliantha · 01-22-2008, 04:28 PM

Actually, here's probably the best solution and it's not even illegal.

Why can't the *muslim community simply hire the whole pool for a certain period of time per week and then hire one of the swim teachers to teach the girls?

That way it's a private affair and they can do what they want if they're paying for it.

this is also good fundraising. Just specify the hire times during periods when the pool is not in such demand.

ETA: *Most cultural/ethnic/religious groups here have their own community organization. I'm assuming it's the same in the US. These groups are usually self funded through members. If the members want their girls to swim, then they'll fork out for it.

Cicero · 01-22-2008, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliantha

Actually, here's probably the best solution and it's not even illegal.

Why can't the *muslim community simply hire the whole pool for a certain period of time per week and then hire one of the swim teachers to teach the girls?

That way it's a private affair and they can do what they want if they're paying for it.

this is also good fundraising. Just specify the hire times during periods when the pool is not in such demand.

ETA: *Most cultural/ethnic/religious groups here have their own community organization. I'm assuming it's the same in the US. These groups are usually self funded through members. If the members want their girls to swim, then they'll fork out for it.

This and consulting with the attorney about this are very good ideas. Some good steps here!!

monster · 01-22-2008, 08:48 PM

Thanks, all.

No federal/state funding. The school will not rent to private parties. We are a special case because we used to be part of the city's Rec/Ed program before it went under.

It is a rock and a hard place. We realise we are not currently serving this section of the community and would like to. I think you guys have pointed me in the right direction of the person to ask, though -the one who found us a lawyer who worked pro bono to get us our 501c3 status, and who has started several programs to help increase minority access to our and other community programs.

This article may interest some:
African Americans more likely to drown

Until recently, our club had very few African American swimmers, despite having an African American head coach, being in a largely African American populated area, being affordable, and offering partial scholarships. Fortunately, that tide seems to be turning.

aimeecc · 01-23-2008, 10:41 AM

Good luck! I think its a worthy endeavour, and I bet you won't be breaking any laws.

01-22-2008, 03:54 PM	#18
Cicero Looking forward to open mic night. Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New Mexico Posts: 5,148	After much deliberation in my head and discussing this with my husband-I don't think this has an easy answer. Monster is clearly between a rock and a hard place. She is taking part in a sexist agenda if she offers the classes. (Not something I expect from generous non-profits) If she doesn't offer the classes, the girls suffer again. Do you want to use the resources of your non-profit to enhance lives? Yup. How to best do that in this situation? I don't know... Sorry...I think I put too much thought into it, and didn't come to a firm conclusion....If you have any other requests for ideas that I can't come up with...let me know!! I'm leaning towards muslim classes (unofficially) for women and girls. You cannot promise that men will not join in on anything or just walk in by accident. Explain thatyou will not be held liable if anyone peeks at a teenage muslim girl or wife. __________________ Show me a sane man, and I will cure him for you.- Carl Jung

01-22-2008, 04:23 PM	#19
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	Check with an attorney, and then check with at least two other attorneys. If all three of them give you the same answer, you might be okay with following their advice ... what's the greater risk ... being sued for gender discrimination or being sued for religious discrimination, or rather, failing to provide religious accomodation? Edit to add: Since the pool is on the premises of a high school, the answer is probably no because of Title IX. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

01-22-2008, 04:28 PM	#20
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	Actually, here's probably the best solution and it's not even illegal. Why can't the muslim community simply hire the whole pool for a certain period of time per week and then hire one of the swim teachers to teach the girls? That way it's a private affair and they can do what they want if they're paying for it. this is also good fundraising. Just specify the hire times during periods when the pool is not in such demand. ETA: Most cultural/ethnic/religious groups here have their own community organization. I'm assuming it's the same in the US. These groups are usually self funded through members. If the members want their girls to swim, then they'll fork out for it. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

01-22-2008, 08:48 PM	#22
monster I hear them call the tide Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Perpetual Chaos Posts: 30,852	Thanks, all. No federal/state funding. The school will not rent to private parties. We are a special case because we used to be part of the city's Rec/Ed program before it went under. It is a rock and a hard place. We realise we are not currently serving this section of the community and would like to. I think you guys have pointed me in the right direction of the person to ask, though -the one who found us a lawyer who worked pro bono to get us our 501c3 status, and who has started several programs to help increase minority access to our and other community programs. This article may interest some: African Americans more likely to drown Until recently, our club had very few African American swimmers, despite having an African American head coach, being in a largely African American populated area, being affordable, and offering partial scholarships. Fortunately, that tide seems to be turning. __________________ The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity Amelia Earhart

01-20-2008, 11:31 AM	#16
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	Cic, I was referring to language classes that are gender separate for muslim women who are uncomfortable (or unable to take part) in a mixed gender class. It was a way of encouraging women with language barriers to take the opportunity to learn English.

01-22-2008, 10:56 AM	#17
aimeecc Super Intendent Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 249	I think it might depend on the funding of the swim program. If its federally or state funded, you might have issues. The fact that its held in a high school does not determine this. I don't think boys require the same segregation as girls. For instance, a Muslim man can be in a room with a woman who is not his relative (and no others). However, a woman cannot be in a room with a man (or men) that is not her relative without another woman there. There'a a lot of women only gyms around here. No special permits needed.

01-23-2008, 10:41 AM	#23
aimeecc Super Intendent Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 249	Good luck! I think its a worthy endeavour, and I bet you won't be breaking any laws.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)