Social Obligations & Immunization

[Clodfobble]

But what about diseases that for the vast majority of the population were not devastating, such as chicken pox? They have recently begun immunizing all children against chicken pox, to prevent the very rare cases where a child would be permanently scarred or blinded due to an unusually severe case--a total of about 100 a year across the entire country. But meanwhile, it is a known fact that the immunization does not protect as well as immunity from having the disease, and completely wears off after ten years. So what happens when a whole chunk of twenty-somethings don't get their second booster, because they've forgotten, or they don't have insurance, or because they figure they're immortal, and all of a sudden there's an outbreak among all these adults, who now actually are in danger of being crippled or killed from the disease?

[Aliantha]

Well, I think chicken pox are a different kettle of fish. Similar to flu vaccines you have to get every year.

They don't fall into the same catagory as polio etc.

[Clodfobble]

Are flu vaccines required over there? I don't get the flu shot, and I don't get the flu.

[Aliantha]

I've never had a flu shot or a chicken pox shot. No vaccines are compulsory here. The government does give you a bonus these days if your child is fully immunised though which really helps some families out.

[Aliantha]

Do the people who immunize think that there is a finite list of diseases and that we can just make vaccines and check them off the list until human are disease free?

I don't think so. Not from my perspective anyway.

I don't agree with a sterile upbringing either. I believe parents are too quick to clean the dirt off their kids these days, and too quick to give them anti biotics when a bit of tlc and hot soup would probably suffice.

With regard to immunisation, I think there are a few key diseases which were once prevalent which are now not due to immunisation, and I think it would be foolish to return to the days when these diseases claimed the lives of so many kids.

[Griff]

I don't know this guy but he expresses my reservations.

Goldman's research supports that shingles, which results in three times as many deaths and five times the number of hospitalizations as chicken pox, is suppressed naturally by occasional contact with chicken pox.

A friends young daughter contracted shingles last year and another kid I know was diagnosed a couple weeks ago... I don't know about the other vaccines but this was apparently quite a con job.

oops what's this?

Based on Dr. Goldman's earlier communications with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), Goldman maintains that epidemiologists from the CDC are hoping "any possible shingles epidemic associated with the chickenpox vaccine can be offset by treating adults with a 'shingles' vaccine." This intervention would substitute for the boosting adults previously received naturally, especially during seasonal outbreaks of the formerly common childhood disease.

Nice little money pump they've built.

[TheMercenary]

I think if we stopped all mandatory immunizations and allowed people to get a number of really nasty communicable life threatening diseases it would help our current population problems and assist in stemming the tide of global warming. We could do more for less people and that might be a good thing. Now if you choose not to immunize and do get a communicable disease you will need to be immediately quarantined to a secure militarized area similar to Gitmo until you spontaneously recover without medical assistance or just die off and then we would incinerate your body at no cost. Yea, I am all for the idea, where do I sign you all up?

[Aliantha]

lol...nice post there Merc

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

lol...nice post there Merc

Sorry if you don't like my post, but I don't like other people putting me and my family at risk because of their choices. But hey, that is just me.

[jinx]

Your kids are vaccinated against smallpox Merc? Man, you're old...

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by jinx

Your kids are vaccinated against smallpox Merc? Man, you're old...

No, but I am.

And Anthrax, yellow fever, and host of other stuff.

[jinx]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

No, but I am.

And Anthrax, yellow fever, and host of other stuff.

Then, what are you talking about here? Doesn't make sense...

If 3 out of 10 people die from the most serious forms of the disease I would say those are odds I would not want to bet against. Would you take the chance if your kids were going to get it and die?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by jinx

Then, what are you talking about here? Doesn't make sense...

General statement about the use of vaccines. I know we don't vaccinate our kids against small pox, yet.

[Aliantha]

Short-sighted, how so? Millions of people from past generations have always "gone to the trouble" to do many things that seemed right at the time for the benefit of children and/or the betterment of society; but many things came and continue to come under scrutiny as society modernized/-es. It's been the case for centuries, no?

It's short sighted because you currently have the luxury of saying, I'm not going to immunise my child because the chances of him/her catching a particular disease are so slim I'll take that risk. If previous generations had taken that view, then I'll bet you'd be lining up at the door to get your kids jabbed first before they had a chance to get sick and die of something preventable. This follows that if everyone stopped immunising today, in a couple of generations time, we'd be back where we started from.

Any death is tragic, really. But while we're discussing the numbers, let me also say that this is exactly what I meant when I said earlier that we all interpret the same data differently. Because when I examine the numbers I see that diseases were already experiencing a natural (if mild) decline when immunization became all the rage.

That could also be attributed to the normal flux of disease. There is not enough empirical data to know either way.

It's a possibility, and I agree - a sad one at that. It's an important conversation to have before bringing a child into the world together, for sure.

Yeah, and what happens when one or the other gets swayed by selfish arguments like the one you've presented after they've already discussed and agreed on a course of action?

[Aliantha]

Nope, there's no herd mentality. You may think you're the only person capable of making an informed decision, but you're not. You'll have to get over that one in your own time.

you take your pot luck with your children and just thank god you live in a society where these diseases are not prevalent due to the dilligence of people with more sense.

That's all I've got to say on this thread. I think I've made my point very clear.