You Go Boy, Drop That Pump

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Because the manufacturing was already in place for it, the H3 has a smaller carbon footprint, per mile, than any hybrid SUV.

I don't see your link, but I hope it isn't to that faulty CNW "research" everyone always talks about.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Because the manufacturing was already in place for it, the H3 has a smaller carbon footprint, per mile, than any hybrid SUV.

I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about people driving gas hogs and whining about the price of gas, while good folks die in the sand. You must be having a different argument.

newguy- Everybody has their reasons, I have a gas sucking 4x4 pickup for farm stuff and a life endangering Echo for town driving. I just can't see whining about the price of gas when the only squeeze you (not you in particular) feel is because you chose poorly at the car lot. Folks need to align their vehicle choice with their reality. If rage can't afford a status only vehicle like a hummer he should park it. If we continue to subsidize gas, we are putting innovation on the back burner.

Originally Posted by Griff

I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about people driving gas hogs and whining about the price of gas, while good folks die in the sand. You must be having a different argument.

newguy- Everybody has their reasons, I have a gas sucking 4x4 pickup for farm stuff and a life endangering Echo for town driving. I just can't see whining about the price of gas when the only squeeze you (not you in particular) feel is because you chose poorly at the car lot. Folks need to align their vehicle choice with their reality. If rage can't afford a status only vehicle like a hummer he should park it. If we continue to subsidize gas, we are putting innovation on the back burner.

Status only? You have no idea why we have the vehicle. Speak of what you know.
It still gets better mileage than our truck, the truck before, our van and the SUV we used to have and our neighbor's SUV... speak of what you know.
Again, people who bitch about Hummers are clueless and good to laugh at.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Griff

Next time you get pissed when some hippie flips you off in traffic, remember that your POS Hummer is a powerful symbol of your support for the Bush agenda.

What a load of crap. When people flipped me off in my H2 I just ran em off the road. Idiots. That is some screwed up logic assumptions there...

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

What a load of crap. When people flipped me off in my H2 I just ran em off the road. Idiots.

Good job reinforcing the negative stereotype, there.

But the Hummer is not really the issue. It is all these supposed liberally minded anti-government people turning around and telling others what they can and cannont spend their money on all the while bitching about government interference in their lives...

You are right: the H2 really isn't the issue, here, although I have no idea what anti-government liberals have to do with it, either. (?) Gas guzzling SUVs are a drop in the bucket compared to the overall excessive American lifestyle and the refusal to live efficiently -- high gas prices are going to bite people in many more aspects besides their commute. The vehicle is the most easily noted example in people's lives and the easiest to see a direct connection. Environmental issues aside, a switch for many would be good. Even in this most obvious aspect, people aren't doing it despite the tax on their bank account and the stubbornness bewilders the rest of us.

I'm really interested as to why so many people, especially the complainers, are so resistant to switching. I have a whole crew of people at my office that exclusively drive pickup trucks and will not consider switching to a small vehicle. They:

...are not contractors or construction workers.
...do not regularly haul equipment or supplies.
...do not haul a trailer.
...are most often the only thing the truck is hauling.

Despite all of these points, each of them notes they have no plans to drive anything other than a pickup now or in the future. The high cost of gasoline has been enough to push several of them into financial difficulty because of long commutes to the point that one has been lamenting that he might "actually have to switch to a closer church" rather than the one he prefers. Do people think the soaring cost of fuel is temporary? Are all of these deluded drivers waiting for the impossible day the government does something to reduce the price of gas?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Kitsune

Good job reinforcing the negative stereotype, there.



You are right: the H2 really isn't the issue, here, although I have no idea what anti-government liberals have to do with it, either. (?) Gas guzzling SUVs are a drop in the bucket compared to the overall excessive American lifestyle and the refusal to live efficiently -- high gas prices are going to bite people in many more aspects besides their commute. The vehicle is the most easily noted example in people's lives and the easiest to see a direct connection. Environmental issues aside, a switch for many would be good. Even in this most obvious aspect, people aren't doing it despite the tax on their bank account and the stubbornness bewilders the rest of us.

I'm really interested as to why so many people, especially the complainers, are so resistant to switching. I have a whole crew of people at my office that exclusively drive pickup trucks and will not consider switching to a small vehicle. They:

...are not contractors or construction workers.
...do not regularly haul equipment or supplies.
...do not haul a trailer.
...are most often the only thing the truck is hauling.

Despite all of these points, each of them notes they have no plans to drive anything other than a pickup now or in the future. The high cost of gasoline has been enough to push several of them into financial difficulty because of long commutes to the point that one has been lamenting that he might "actually have to switch to a closer church" rather than the one he prefers. Do people think the soaring cost of fuel is temporary? Are all of these deluded drivers waiting for the impossible day the government does something to reduce the price of gas?

The "stereotype" goes both ways. The one giving the finger is making assumptions (big assumptions) about the said driver of the Hummer by flipping the finger. The said driver feels the idiot should be driven off the road for flipping the finger and making assumptions.

We got rid of our H2 after 2 years more for practical reasons than because we did not like the truck. I have driven a PU since 1998 and will never be without one. I need it mostly to pull a boat and trailer with a combined weight of nearly #5000. There really is no incentive to drive anything else. They are comfortable and useful for numerous things. I have a Crew Cab so it can take my whole family or kids and friends or me and the wife or just me when I drive to and from work. We are not deluded drivers (another assumption). The price of gas is painful but an extra $20 or $30 a week is really not that much for me so I am not about to trade in the truck I love to drive because of a increase in gas by $1 per gallon. When it gets to $8 or $10 I may re-consider, but maybe not. If someone is stretching the cash flow to put food on the table because a small increase in gas I would suggest they have a priority problem.

I am thinking about trading in for a new truck now but may wait as in 08 they are coming out (finally) with some F-150's with diesel engines, or I may just go with the full sized Toyota.


I am not contractors or construction workers.
I do not not regularly haul equipment or supplies.
I do haul a trailer a few times each month.
Most often the only thing the truck is hauling is me.
It all comes back to my original point, how is it that a fairly liberal minded mass of people want to bitch and moan about everything government and how their liberties are being effected then turn right around and tell me what I can or cannot buy and spend my money on in a truck I choose to drive?

And our H3 gets better mileage then our van and truck... people are idiots.

[Clodfobble]

I don't have issues with SUVs, myself. I do have issues with people who buy gas-guzzlers and then complain about the price of gas. In the grand scheme of the middle class budget, as well as compared to the rest of the world, our gas prices are irrelevantly low. When people change their buying habits because of the price of gas--not bitch and moan about how they'll have to change soon, but actually change them--then gas prices will be relevant.

Gas costs what it costs. Paying too close attention to the day-to-day fluctuations is just going to give you high blood pressure. The price will forever continue to go up because of inflation, while the inflation-adjusted price will most likely cycle downward in another 4 or 5 years when our relationship with the mideast hits another stride. Meanwhile, alternative energies will continue to be refined, and even in the absence of innovation may eventually become more affordable by comparison if nothing else.

This guy may have a legitimate point, especially in regards to how small gas station owners get screwed by tiny margins while the oil suppliers get rich, but his protest had about as much effect as a car ribbon.

[Beestie]

Gas is still cheaper than Coke. Which is water. From a hose. And some other stuff that costs about three cents.

[HungLikeJesus]

Originally Posted by jinx

Buying less gas means buying less everything - which can be really hard when everything is shipped from china, over-packaged, and designed to break 2 days after the warranty expires. The gas you put in your vehicle is a small part of a huge picture. Buying a prius is a finger in the dyke solution.

Brilliant. Really.

I assumed, jinx, that you wanted an honest response. That was about as straight an answer as I could give.

I'm certainly willing to listen to someone who can explain why increasing fuel consumption isn't a significant factor in high gas prices. Refineries are running at capacity; oil output from most of the world's oil fields is running near capacity; American average fuel efficiency has been declining for many years - largely due to increased use of SUVs, vans and trucks - meaning more fuel use. So, if the drivers of high consumption vehicles (which I would arbitrarily say would be anything that gets less than 20 mpg) are a major contributing factor in high gas prices, they should suffer the effects of those high prices.

If you are concerned about the price of gas, the simple solution is to use less - either by driving less or by driving a vehicle that doesn't need as much gas. To drive 15,000 miles in a car getting 67 miles per gallon requires 224 gallons. To drive the same 15,000 miles in a car getting 15 mpg would use 1000 gallons. At $3.30/gallon, the SUV cost an extra $2500 to drive that same distance. Alternatively, the SUV could go 3,360 miles on the amount of gas that the Insight used to go 15,000 miles.

Below, I've quoted some of the responses from SUV owners, which are, so far, defensive, and don't explain why high consumption vehicles aren't responsible for the increased prices.

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

People who have issues with SUVs crack me up. Ill informed and narrow minded.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

We loved our H2's. Great truck. Great tax break as well!

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

And our H3 gets better mileage then our van and truck... people are idiots.

I didn't quote Clodfobble or Beestie, but I thought that they made some good points.

[In the interest of full disclosure - I worked as an engineer in the automotive industry for 14 years. I became frustrated that they had no interest in fuel-efficient vehicles, so I left and started over in renewable energy.]

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by HLJ

If you are concerned about the price of gas, the simple solution is to use less - either by driving less or by driving a vehicle that doesn't need as much gas.

The obvious American solution is to add yet another vehicle to the family's fleet.

With gas prices well over $3 a gallon nationwide, many drivers are lining up to buy small cars.

But hundreds of thousands of consumers aren't giving up anything to downsize. Instead, they are simply adding pint-sized transportation to their driveways, parked alongside their SUV or pickup.

In households that own a small car, the family fleet is close to an average of three vehicles, according to CNW Marketing Research, which tracks industry trends (the national average is just over two cars per household, and America was a one-car-per-family nation a generation ago).

These growing fleets suggest an approach to conservation that is more addition than subtraction. "Small cars are like a fashion statement," said Art Spinella, president of CNW Marketing.

[HungLikeJesus]

Originally Posted by Kitsune

The obvious American solution is to add yet another vehicle to the family's fleet.

Kitsune, that's exactly what I did 4 years ago when I bought the Insight. I kept my truck for those days when we get 2 feet of snow and I have to go to work. I put an average of about 1,000 miles a year on the truck and 9,000 on the Insight.

[mitheral]

Originally Posted by HLJ

Kitsune, that's exactly what I did 4 years ago when I bought the Insight. I kept my truck for those days when we get 2 feet of snow and I have to go to work. I put an average of about 1,000 miles a year on the truck and 9,000 on the Insight.

Ya I drive my L4 mini almost all the time but I still need my stake body dually a dozen or so times a year.

Originally Posted by HLJ

Does anyone still make something like the El Camino? I know that Subaru was selling something along that line (the Justy?). That might be a good option for Undertoad.

A minivan is a better bet. You essentially can't beat them for semi secure cargo carrying in a small relatively decent fuel economy package.

[Elspode]

Originally Posted by Beestie

Gas is still cheaper than Coke. Which is water. From a hose. And some other stuff that costs about three cents.

But...it doesn't take me about five or six gallons of Coke a day just to earn a living and discharge my other duties and activities.

[Kitsune]

Do you disagree with the article that it doesn't really make financial sense?

"From a dollars and cents point of view, it doesn't make sense," said Jesse Toprak, director of industry analysis for Edmunds.com, a Web site that offers car-buying advice. "There's no way you're going to drive it enough to justify the purchase, so it's more of a psychological decision."

Depending on one's driving habits, it might make sense. Really, though, if you have a car, what is the point of also owning an SUV?