UN adopts disability convention

[9th Engineer]

And hopefully still the land of be-specific-about-what-you're-talking-about. They aren't doing anyone any favors by keeping the language vauge, all it'll do is cause complications when problems arise and the people in charge have no real guidelines to follow.

[orthodoc]

Originally Posted by JayMcGee

so... you would like the USA to have a veto in the GA as well?

I thought you was the home of democracy, the land of of the free, et al...

I didn't see MaggieL saying she wants the USA to have a veto in the GA - she clarified the fact that this is not a bill, it's a treaty - nations sign it or not. If the USA doesn't sign it, that's not a veto.

Yeah, this is the best working model of a 'land of the free' at the moment ... coming from a socialist state, I really appreciate the freedoms here. Freedom of expression, freedom of religion - those are only 'free' to the extent the government's agenda will tolerate them, where I came from.

For anyone interested, my friend at the UN sent me her first e-mail.
http://unstats.un.org/unsd/publicati...Seriesy_2E.pdf
If you want it in another language, click on it...http://unstats.un.org/unsd/pubs/gesgrid.asp?id=214

http://www.independentliving.org/standardrules/

http://www.un.org/esa/socdev/enable/disiddp.htm

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by JayMcGee

I thought you was the home of democracy, the land of of the free, et al...

Yeah, and I thought you was the home of English. I guess I were wrong. :-)

Orthodoc had it right though...I was pointing out that it wasn't legislation, the GA approved the text of a convention. Member states are free to become signatories or not. And nobody has veto power in the GA.

[tw]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

Cripes, tw. You're telling me it's not in here?

I was not going to spend $250 (another book was rumored to provide the data for only $80) for information because the person who was being paid and who could not seem to find the numbers did not do so. BTW, I also could not find any of these books in libraries.

I was simply looking for most basic and common information such as how high must wall switches be located from floor. Where in relationship to doors. Access to electrical panels. Location of toilet and peripherals. The simplest of numbers and no one could provide it. But again, I found reams of information on who could be sued, why, for how much, etc.

Where did I find this information? West Coast cities provided much of it. It took hours - most of a day - to find those numbers because I had to wade through so much law and other (what should be) irrelevant crap. It says much when 'how to get the work done' becomes irrelevant to 'who can we blame'. Wonder why ADA stuff can get expensive?

Washers and dryers. The paid professional even had us put those up on a raised platform. What did the disabled residents immediately do? Remove a platform that only made washer and dryer more difficult to use. But again, some english major could not bother even read the book. And so I had to learn how difficult ADA can be.

Yes some items cost plenty. A sidewalk to meet ADA requirements costs many $thousands. But there is no good reason for putting electric switches so high. In fact, a friend owns a house originally designed by an EE. Every switch is at knuckles height. Turn on lights without even raising a hand; simply swing an arm at the switch. Easier for the 'enabled' as well as for the disabled. But in construction, fear of change and learning is rampant.

Washer and dryers are routinely made with controls foolishly located in the back only because that was always how it was. Today, LC, et al routinely make white appliances easy for both 'enabled' and disabled - and they cost less.

Having addressed disability questions, most solutions need not cost more money. One complained that they had to widen an exterior door. But then that door was also in violation of human safety standards - for both 'enabled' and disabled. Many expenses for the disabled really are because we keep doing the same thing wrong rather than asking some simple questions and adapting better standards.

In one town, when it was obvious that ADA requirements for curbs were coming, they still built street curbs wrong. And then complained when they had to remove those new and defective curbs to meet ADA requirements one year later. Too often the expense of making something ADA compliant is traceable to that girl who could not even read the material provided and provide us with the right numbers. Then she complained about how ADA was making things so complex. In trying to do her job, I then learned why so much ADA stuff is so expensive. It's not. Just that some people do not do their jobs - ie learn. So many just fear change because this is how we did it 20 and 30 years ago. Ask them why - they don't know.

I could not even find any numbers for ADA in any of so many county and university libraries. But I certainly knew how to sue.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by tw

But there is no good reason for putting electric switches so high. In fact, a friend owns a house originally designed by an EE. Every switch is at knuckles height. Turn on lights without even raising a hand; simply swing an arm at the switch. Easier for the 'enabled' as well as for the disabled.

At least some, if not all, new-home construction in my city now has the lower light switches as standard. My friend who owns one of them likes it because her youngest kids can reach the switches without help.

[lookout123]

why exactly would it be a good idea for the US to sign anything the UN puts out that doesn't specifically deal with international relations?

[9th Engineer]

What height are we talking about here and what disability would prevent someone from using them? I don't think I can remember using a light switch higher than 3-4ft, not high enough for someone in a wheelchair to have a problem with. Is there some weird standard where they install them at face height or something

[Clodfobble]

All the houses in Texas, at least, except the very newest ones, have the light switches about 5 feet off the ground, around shoulder-to-chin height. The new ones are about 3 feet off the ground. Each state has its own building codes.

Originally Posted by 9th Engineer

What height are we talking about here and what disability would prevent someone from using them? I don't think I can remember using a light switch higher than 3-4ft, not high enough for someone in a wheelchair to have a problem with. Is there some weird standard where they install them at face height or something

These are the standard, rigid frame, wheelchairs that we use. Those, like me, who use power-chairs are a bit higher, but not much.
http://www.colourswheelchair.com/idx_products.htm
Basically, people need to comply with the ADA, and they do not.
I cannot begin to list how many new companies, or companies that have changed hands, have come into being in my town since the ADA has been in force that are non-compliant. It is just a lack of consideration/caring, they just don't want our business.
Edit:
Complying with the ADA is easy, get a damn wheelchair (full sized with feet out a pack on the back, many have ventilators)and do what you need to do to do to make it easy to do everything that an able bodied person does in that space, including the bathrooms... if you do that, then you are compliant. Duh.

[orthodoc]

It looks like most of the requirements in terms of door width, switch height, etc., are right on this web site: www.access-board.gov/adaag/html/adaag.htm. The main ADA site is here: www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/adahom1.htm. It took about one second to google it. I'm not sure why anyone would need to pay for expensive books or consultants ...

[tw]

Originally Posted by orthodoc

It looks like most of the requirements in terms of door width, switch height, etc., are right on this web site

OK where does it list the height of wall switches? Where does it list the height of AC wall receptacles?

There are also limits on slope verses length for ramps, sidewalks, etc. Where is any of that listed?

Cited is a but a miniscule list of what is required for ADA. And many of those features (ie mirror height, sink height) should become standard anyway.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by tw

I was not going to spend $250 (another book was rumored to provide the data for only $80) for information because the person who was being paid and who could not seem to find the numbers did not do so. BTW, I also could not find any of these books in libraries.

Sounds like the real problem was you hired an incompetant.

Architectural Graphic Standards is...well..a standard work. Shit, even I have a copy, although it's elderly...but then so am I, and I'm not practicing as an architect.

You and your minions can't find things that seem to be easy for others to find. Then you complain about how Americans suck and nobody cares.

[JayMcGee]

not true, Maggie..... I care about how well Americans suck

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by JayMcGee

not true, Maggie..... I care about how well Americans suck

"How Americans suck" and "how well Americans suck" are not equivalant phrases. Still not living in the home of English, I see. :-)