Cloning Bill Passes

[9th Engineer]

It does start to blur the lines a little, if you can buy human eggs and sperm it turns the embryos into something of a cash crop. I would keep it at voluntary donation and harvesting for personal use

[DucksNuts]

mine are free range

$2.50/dozen

Originally Posted by 9th Engineer

It does start to blur the lines a little, if you can buy human eggs and sperm it turns the embryos into something of a cash crop. I would keep it at voluntary donation and harvesting for personal use

Good.

[Clodfobble]

Umm... you already can sell your eggs. Google the phrase "egg donor." It's damn lucrative, in the thousands of dollars, because you have to go through a couple of months of hormone shots and an invasive procedure to harvest them.

[Beestie]

The potential for abuse in cloning is limitless. But, like everything else, you can't stop it - you can only slow it down.

For some reason, I have a head full of cloning nightmare scenarios ranging from cloned cyborg armies grown in secret then sprung, the emergence of a new worldwide worker subclass with diminished rights, bio-mechanical computers with brain-stem controllers, pre-lobotomized testing subjects for "non-human" human tests and trials, the list just goes on forever.

Its all fun and games until someone unleashes an army of superhuman automatons. Sounds nuts, I realize but the theoretical obstacles are already being worked through in places far beneath the ground.

[Ibby]

[Aliantha]

All things are corrupted and bastardised sooner or later. Why would cloning be any different?

[tw]

Even abuse of adoption exists. Therefore we should also ban adoption? Same reasoning used for cloning. So much fear. So little based in facts.

Cloning of organs is evil or against the will of god? Yes, that is also hyped - fear of cloning being so widespread.

Even Dolly the sheep was not an exact clone copy. Furthermore, cloning appears to create life with more medical problems. Therefore we should ban all cloning? Again fear long before we understand the science.

We have standards for testing on humans. Same rules apply to cloning. As we learn more, only then need we apply more restrictions. But just like in stem cell research, the naive want to hinder the advancement of man - only because they fear.

Most ridiculous is that abortions would be widespread only because science wants stem cells. Therefore we should ban all stem cell research. Draconian nonsense leads to ridiculous reasoning.

Most promising would be cloning of organs - new kidneys or livers for the so many waiting (and dying) for a transplant. But even back when the first kidney transplant occurred, the Catholic Church then declared that transplant as original sin. Emotional fear of the unknown. Quietly, the church reversed itself.

We have so much to learn. That means we have so many mistakes to make and to learn from. Passing draconian laws only due to fear - without even learning the science - is akin to banning witches in Salem. To ban cloning means we should also ban adoption.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by Elspode

Another billboard that the antis had out during the campaign season said something along the lines of, "If Prop 2 Passes, Women Will be Selling Their Eggs".

Gosh. Can anyone tell me why they should *not* sell their eggs if they want to? I mean, they belong to them, don't they? Or have I missed something about egg selling?

Would you object to me selling my kidney?

Remember, that selling implies a buyer and a market. With supplies such as these (kidneys, not eggs) in extremely small quantities, it makes sense that the prices would only permit the richest to participate. That's not always the same group as the most deserving, or the most likely to benefit, or those for whom the benefit will be the greatest.

I can't sell my blood, either, and that's much less "rare" than kidneys. Interestingly, I can sell my blood plasma.

I guess I'm ok with it--you can sell your eggs, Elspode.



edit: changed "can see my blood plasma" to "can sell my blood plasma". Both are true and one is marginally less irrelevant.

[Aliantha]

Here's a little story for you.

My cousin was killed in a riding accident at the age of 21. She was an organ donor. Now, there are parts of her that live on through the people she helped see, breath and whose blood she now processes.

This thought is comforting for me. Incidentally, it's her mother who survived cancer due to stem cell research.

[Elspode]

Originally Posted by BigV

Would you object to me selling my kidney?

Nope. It is yours to do with as you wish. I would advise against it, as you might need it later. That's why you have two.

On the other hand, maybe you'd better sell it before someone drugs you and you wake up in a bathtub full of ice with a note...

[9th Engineer]

The selling of human organs has alot more going against it than just the idea that you shouldn't sell human parts, but that's a huge topic in its own right. Think past "it's your body, do what you want with it" and look at the consequenses of a system set up to revolve around organ sales (it would transition to one if we allowed it to)

[Aliantha]

What would the consequences be 9th?

[BigV]

Remember, that selling implies a buyer and a market. With supplies such as these (kidneys, not eggs) in extremely small quantities, it makes sense that the prices would only permit the richest to participate. That's not always the same group as the most deserving, or the most likely to benefit, or those for whom the benefit will be the greatest.

One plausible example.

[Aliantha]

that's what they said about plastic surgery