Homosexuality: Choice or Chance?

[Griff]

Originally Posted by footfootfoot

And then it may be a choice; didn't mr.noodle elect to be gay for the whole cellar, albeit fluid-less?

And we appreciated his fluidless gesture.

Instinctively, I'd say a more nature than nurture, but in case nobody noticed, folks we're complicated.

[Pangloss62]

According to the book it all has to do with what is happening hormonally during gestation.

Evidently, we all start out as female until enough testosterone is created in the womb to have its masculine effect. Androgen, oestrogen and testosterone (the latter is an androgen) all seem to play roles in determining both sex and sexual orientation (at least before culture starts playing a role).

I think the most interesting thing about sexual orientation is that it's probably not as rigidly established as most might think. I have a lot of gay friends both male and female and I've always joked with them how they have a little "woman" or "man" in them respectively. I consider myself masculine, but when my friends see my collection of retro kitchen appliances, I say "There must be a little "gay" in me. It's both a form of stereotyping and acknowledging that our sexual orientation, at least biologically, is probably the result of a ratio of hormones at any given time. The latter is important because we produce them ourselves, so that ratio will change as we age.

[Sundae]

I just can't understand the idea that homosexuality is a decadent choice, and anyone with a weak moral fibre can be led easily into it (not suggested in this thread, but an opinion I have heard many times).

When advertisers want you to change from one brand of cola to another they pay millions, hire pop stars, use exotic locations and thumping soundtracks.

But if you tell little Jimmy that Colin and Justin live together because they love eachother just like Mummy and Daddy do, he'll grow up wanting another man's cock up his arse.

I say apply the standards posted by Undertoad:

Then, when it comes to determining your sexual situation there are sorta like three "levels".

1 You think about it
2 You fantasize about it
3 You do it

If it floats your boat the chances are it's a natural urge, and in the case of homosexuality, one that does no harm to other people.

[mrnoodle]

predisposition = nature. behavior = choice.

[Spexxvet]

Choice = active decision making

[Pangloss62]

Free Will = Myth

[headsplice]

This is a false dichotomy. Very, very little of our psychological makeup (and, more particularly, our actions) is completely determined by our genetic sequencing. A better way to say it is that our genotypes set a range of possible outcomes for phenotypes, which are then more concretely manifested after interaction with other people.
In Kinsey's terms, you aren't 100% gay or 100% straight. Most people fall somewhere within the range of bisexual, either less or more so. So, if you have a stronger genetic pre-disposition to being gay, it's more likely that you will be attracted to the same sex, but it is by no means a guarantee.
Of course, by no means does that imply that your sexuality is a 'choice' (defined as: actively deciding, "I think I'll dig dudes today, because I'm tired of chicks pissing me off"). You are still attracted to who you're attracted to and trying to change that makes you a little bit crazy (have you ever seen the people who have 'gone straight'? That's clearly an abuse of the god-given gifts of repression and denial). Generally speaking, the factors that lead up to that 'choice' are invariably out of your control (like being molested, or having a strongly pair-bonded set of hetero-parents) and those are the factors that end up influencing your sexuality.

[Elspode]

I have to wonder why we worry about it at all. There are many heterosexual acts that are considered to be "perverted" in polite society, but even God fearing men like to have their lady wrap their lips around the old German helmet, and sometimes, they may like to be involved with a little back door action.

Do we tag those people with the same sort of Destination: Hell luggage stickers?

[headsplice]

Originally Posted by Elspode

Do we tag those people with the same sort of Destination: Hell luggage stickers?

Where am I? And what am I doing in this handbasket?

[morethanpretty]

Originally Posted by Elspode

I have to wonder why we worry about it at all. There are many heterosexual acts that are considered to be "perverted" in polite society, but even God fearing men like to have their lady wrap their lips around the old German helmet, and sometimes, they may like to be involved with a little back door action.

Do we tag those people with the same sort of Destination: Hell luggage stickers?

Some people do.
Only the missionary position por vous! I love to mix languages

I think a lot of it is people just aren't willing to accept the differences in others, that is why we have so many prejudices, and this kind is no different then the rest. The only people I see as having a justifiable reason to want to exclude homosexuals, are the religions who have it written in their doctrine. But that doesn't mean they have the right to demand that the rest of society excludes them too. And the argument that it will be detrimental to the sanctity of marriage is ludicrous, either you are faithful to your marriage or you aren't, another person's marriage should have no influence over that. But they still have as much right to believe it a sin as they do to believe that murder is a sin.

[mrnoodle]

You are not bound by genetics to rub your peepee against something. You have to consciously do it.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

You are not bound by genetics to rub your peepee against something. You have to consciously do it.

If you don't consciously do it, there's a good chance you'll do it unconsciously some night. And who was with you in that dream?

[glatt]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

If you don't consciously do it, there's a good chance you'll do it unconsciously some night. And who was with you in that dream?

And if you are a teenager, you don't even have to touch it to acheive the same results. I remember this one dream when I was about 15 about a Porsche 944.

[wolf]

Originally Posted by glatt

And if you are a teenager, you don't even have to touch it to acheive the same results. I remember this one dream when I was about 15 about a Porsche 944.

Is that autoeroticism?

[Flint]

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

You are not bound by genetics to rub your peepee against something.

That is the definition of how we are bound by genetics: to pass on our genes, IE have sex.