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03-22-2005, 04:21 PM | #16 | ||
Goon Squad Leader
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I decline is a perfectly fine answer. Not trying to be nosy, but kids and schools is a big part of my life. I like to learn about other's experiences too.
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03-22-2005, 04:45 PM | #17 | ||
Come on, cat.
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Crying won't help you, praying won't do you no good. Last edited by jinx; 03-22-2005 at 05:02 PM. |
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03-22-2005, 05:14 PM | #18 | ||
The future is unwritten
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Your personal attack and charges of trolling for attention are ridiculous and way out of line. If there's one thing OC get's around here is plenty of attention.
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The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump. |
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03-22-2005, 06:07 PM | #19 | |||||
Junior Master Dwellar
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I call bullshit on your call of bullshit. If parents aren't monitoring their children's behavior, and they are exhibiting signs (depressed, antisocial behavior over and beyond what a normal teenager exhibits, writing violent and other harmful thoughts in a journal or on the internet) of impending violence, and the parents aren't doing their job parenting, then this shit happens. Period. This child was 16 (or 17, I've seen both), a nazi, posting about doing violence to former schoolmates, and already in homeschooling. The child was kicked out of school (of course, the school can't discuss why, but the article I saw the principle didn't even know why). If the child was already kicked out of school once, that's a sign your child has problems. Should you EXPECT your child to go kill 12 people? No. But if you're seeing red flags, and you do not parent your child, this type of thing happens. I have a 17 year old male child, who exhibits loner, anti-social behavior and does not play well with others at school. His grades are average. I know where he is at all times. Period. He has a cell phone and keeps it with him. He's never been at trouble in school, other than his grades. His biological father is a murderer, and I am aware that this sort of behavior may be partly genetic in nature. If I *wasn't* paying attention to his behavior, his mood, his whereabouts, where his friend lives, looking at the history on his IE, checking his pictures on the computer, monitoring his notebooks for dark or disturbing art, checking his backpack, things like that, then I would not be doing my job as a parent. Parents who "gee, I didn't see this coming" weren't paying attention. Quote:
How they handle it depends on the parent, obviously, but dismissing it, attributing violent "stories" and "thoughts" clearly written down in such a way that the police feel the child is a danger to themselves or others simply to "independant thought", is potentially lethal. Quote:
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Better a prison than my kids' school. Quote:
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Impotentes defendere libertatem non possunt. "Repetition does not transform a lie into a truth." ~Franklin D. Roosevelt Last edited by OnyxCougar; 03-22-2005 at 06:28 PM. |
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03-22-2005, 06:54 PM | #20 | |||
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I wish to clarify my position
xoB:
You've been around the cellar a lot longer than I have, and I've had the pleasure of reading many posts by you. I laughed, I agreed, I laughed some more, I gave a point more thought, when I read your posts. This last post deserves the same treatment--after all, you're the same fella with the same wise friendly voice. Maybe I missed something in my response, or got my fingers tangled in the editor and posted something different from what I intended. So I did some more research, I reviewed all the posts. Here's what I found. I could not find another reference to confirm my statement about the kid's grandfather being the chief of police. I thought for sure that's how I heard him described on the radio, and that he was the person who trained the unarmed security guard at the school, the first victim at the school. All I could find was that he was a tribal police officer, but no confirmation that he was the chief of police. I withdraw the overstatement. It's clear he was a cop, though. My personal experience with cops in my family is that they are observant people. They do stay in touch with their children. They're aware of what's going on in their households. My personal experience represents a very small sample, to be sure. However, when you make your statement: I wonder what you base it on. At best it is an uncharitable generalization that cops make poor parents due to bad relations with their kids. You imply that the grandfather bullied the boy because he was a cop. I'm sure you don't know any more than I do about the situation in that household than I do, so we'll both have to just wonder for the time being, was the kid bullied by the grandfather or not. Perhaps further reports will reveal new facts about the situation. In the meantime, I will overlook your defamation of cops as parents. I was not knee jerking here. I tried to accurately paraphrase OC's comment. At this point I have been challenged twice on my reaction to OC's comments. What she meant is up to her to explain. You, Beestie, and I all have only her words to go on. I have already answered Beestie's interpretation of OC's remarks. Perhaps your interpretation is right. If it is right, then I am all for it. But that's not what she said. I tried hard to focus on what she said. Which brings me to my next point. Quote:
OC, I have no quarrel with you personally, but I disagree with what you said in the strongest possible terms.
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Be Just and Fear Not. Last edited by BigV; 03-22-2005 at 08:07 PM. |
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03-22-2005, 08:03 PM | #21 | ||||||||
Goon Squad Leader
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First Beestie, then xoB, now OC
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For sure, this kid was awash in a sea of red flags. Dad dead, mom in nursing home, Goth shaped target of peer ridicule, already kicked out of school at least once, to borrow a phrase, it must have sucked to be him. Quote:
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I have read some early evidence that there were steps taken, but clearly not the right ones. Sad. Quote:
On the other hand, when do you drop the dime on your kid? Not in retrospect, no fair. Each day is a damn mystery. I swear, parenting is the last great refuge of amateurs. Seriously, who knows if this time is the last time. I for one am glad for the mercy I received as a youngster, and that I wasn't treated so strictly that I got arrested for doing the bad things I did. Certainly no murderer, but, criminy, prison is not victory, it's a draw at best, and a delay of defeat most of the time. This cannot be prevented. And the cost of the futile exercise of attempting to do so is far far greater than even the cost of what has happened today.
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03-23-2005, 08:09 AM | #22 |
Slattern of the Swail
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Hmm. Just read where the grandfather was in bedwith his "companion" when they were shot. Grandfather is 58, "companion" is 32. Wonder if that's why Grandfather couldn't be bothered to find out what Jeffy was up to..?
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In Barrie's play and novel, the roles of fairies are brief: they are allies to the Lost Boys, the source of fairy dust and ...They are portrayed as dangerous, whimsical and extremely clever but quite hedonistic. "Shall I give you a kiss?" Peter asked and, jerking an acorn button off his coat, solemnly presented it to her. —James Barrie Wimminfolk they be tricksy. - ZenGum |
03-23-2005, 12:07 PM | #23 |
Professor
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So people with kids shouldn't have sex? That's one way of reducing the population, I'll grant you.
This case seems tailor-made to stymie knee-jerk reactions. The gun control crowd has to go "doh!" when they find out the guns belonged to a cop, and the "blame the parents" crowd has a bit of a problem when they find out neither parent was in any position to do anything about it. |
03-23-2005, 01:17 PM | #24 |
lobber of scimitars
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The hard core of the "gun control crowd" doesn't think that cops should have guns either.
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wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis |
03-23-2005, 01:31 PM | #25 |
The urban Jane Goodall
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And we see how well that works in England.
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03-23-2005, 01:36 PM | #26 |
Slattern of the Swail
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[quote=russotto]So people with kids shouldn't have sex? That's one way of reducing the population, I'll grant you.[quote]
dumbass. No. Obviously. People with kids should get their heads out of their asses and pay attention to their kids.
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In Barrie's play and novel, the roles of fairies are brief: they are allies to the Lost Boys, the source of fairy dust and ...They are portrayed as dangerous, whimsical and extremely clever but quite hedonistic. "Shall I give you a kiss?" Peter asked and, jerking an acorn button off his coat, solemnly presented it to her. —James Barrie Wimminfolk they be tricksy. - ZenGum |
03-23-2005, 01:41 PM | #27 | |
lobber of scimitars
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Australia too.
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wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis |
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03-23-2005, 05:23 PM | #28 | |
The future is unwritten
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Cops as parents, although they tend to be alpha personalities that beget more alphas, I don't have a problem with. Time and time again I've seen cops "take an interest" or "keep in touch" with kids that are not related to them and it ain't pretty.
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The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump. |
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03-23-2005, 05:30 PM | #29 | |
The urban Jane Goodall
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The attachment most of his children is amazing. He works his ass of for his family and most of them know it.
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I have gained this from philosophy: that I do without being commanded what others do only from fear of the law. - Aristotle |
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03-23-2005, 05:39 PM | #30 |
The future is unwritten
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That's family.
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