Would you call the cops? - Page 2

lumberjim · 05-23-2007, 01:54 PM

if the question is 'should YOU call the cops?' then, hell no. stay out of it. should you try to persuade your friend to, well, maybe. depends on the relationship you have. take care of your own kids. use it as an exapmle to educate them. other than that.....

Yznhymr · 05-23-2007, 02:47 PM

Please bear with me, I know this story is not the same caliber, but does illustrate my point...

We had a situation where a strange man came into my front yard with two large (full-sized) schnauzers and he was “training” them. Now we have three miniature schnauzers and they were going nuts and my kids and wife were afraid to go outside. I went outside to ask him to take his dogs elsewhere. He began cussing me and threatening me in my own yard. One dog was chained to a post but the other was free and he had his whistle in his hand and I didn’t want him sending his dog to attack me so I got a camcorder and went back out. While taping, I got him say his name and his refusal to leave, so then I called out to neighbors to call the cops. During this time one of my friends walked up from two doors down and this man’s dog that was chained jumped up and bit him. He was able to get away from the dog. The police showed up and they called for an ambulance to check my friend out. They took both dogs away from the man. In our state, it is required that the animal be quarantined for at least 10 days. After that, it is up to Animal Control to determine what to do with the animal based on whether it has a history of biting. They called my friend and asked if he wanted them to put the dogs down. He said he didn’t want to press charges or have the dogs put down, but would get back with them before the 10 days were up. He called me for advice, and I said this: “Recently a boy in the news was attacked by a dog that bit his face and he will be scarred for life. That dog had been involved in a previous biting incident and that man did not have the dog put down. If he only knew that his decision could have saved this little boy from the pain and life long scars, he would have made a different decision. I bet he feels very bad now. Do you want that hanging over you if that ever happened?” He went ahead and decided to let them release the dogs to the owner. I hope they never attack another person. But the point here is, your friend needs to understand the POTENTIAL future consequences of their decision. I hope that helps.

PS. Here is the story I refer to: Settlement reached for small child attacked by landlord's dog - Our client, a 4-year old boy, was attacked in his driveway by a Golden Retriever. The dog was owned by the landlord. The landlord was close to the dog, but the dog was not on a leash at the time of the attack. The boy was bitten in the face and lip, sustaining permanent scarring and irregularity of the lip. A lawsuit was filed and depositions (statements under oath) of the dog owner and his neighbors revealed that the dog had attacked and bitten another child in the face one year prior to attacking our client.

Shawnee123 · 05-23-2007, 02:49 PM

A Golden? They're usually very docile. It's the little yappers you gotta worry about.

BigV · 05-23-2007, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf

Absolutely. My notion of conflict resolution might be different since I'm a mandated reporter, though.

Exactly the same here.

Call the cops. I would have called the cops. What's the downside here? If the boy's innocent, no harm no foul. If the boy's guilty then the consequences should be borne.

For pete's sake, under what circumstances would this be ok? I have a daughter. I have sons too. I'm trying to think of any situation where this is not a big problem. Kids old enough to be waiting at a bus stop unsupervised are abso-freakin-lutely old enough to know this is completely unacceptable.

So, parents, imagine your child on either end of this exchange. No biggie? Not for me.

glatt · 05-23-2007, 03:45 PM

My daughter is in second grade. There's a boy in her class who I believe is autistic. Not sure. Nobody has told us or the other parents what the name of his condition is, but there is a special teacher in the classroom just for him. He sounds very similar to the boy here. This guy doesn't make connections with other kids the way you and I are used to kids behaving. He doesn't have empathy. My daughter is nice to him and patient with him, but doesn't really consider him a friend. I think he likes her more than he likes most of the other kids in the class.

Couple months ago, he walked up to her while she was sitting at her desk working in class, and he punched her in the head. He did this to a couple other kids the same week. Over the course of the year, there had been other more minor incidents as well.

Our daughter understands how his condition makes him more likely to do things like what he did. She doesn't hold it against him. But we didn't want her to grow up thinking that it's OK to be somebody's punching bag. We didn't want her to feel like his needs were more important than hers. So even though the incident was over and had been handled by the teacher, we talked to everyone at the school. Both teachers. The principal. The guidance counselor.

The school's reaction was awesome. They moved him to a different location in the classroom so our daughter isn't in his field of view. The teacher has more support from the school administration. Everyone is focusing more attention on the situation, and it has improved dramatically.

Maybe I'm lucky to have such a good school, but I can't help thinking that a school has better resources than the cops do for dealing with something like this. If I were the parent of any of the kids involved, and the school wasn't responsive, then I would call the cops.

Sundae · 05-23-2007, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfalicious

"sexual assault"???... We're all really getting to be a bunch of whiny drama queens and it sickens me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radar

smurfalicious says to get over it? If someone whips out their junk and rubs it on you, it's the textbook definition of sexual assault regardless of the age of the people doing it.

Totally with Radar on this. Sexual (masturbation even if you don't count exposure) assualt (act perpetrated on someone unwilling). End of.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfalicious

Before anyone goes slinging "sexual assault" around, what about considering the age of the child(ren) involved? Because I know some 5-6 year olds that have been suspended/expelled under the "zero tolerance" policy for "sexual assault" - their actions being as innocent as kissing another child on a playground or looking up a skirt.

I agree with the above, too. But the way in which the incident was described goes beyond childhood curiousity. If it turns out the boy in question was 6 I will readdress my response, but the school still needs to be involved in a case of simulated masturbation even at this age

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfalicious

If the assaulter is handicapped, well, it might be best to let it go. Boys are boys, they're going to pull sh!t like this, especially when there's a group of them egging him on.

No. If this is assault it still needs to be addressed, but I agree with glatt that it needs to be addressed by those competent to do so. If the school has been informed and the boy/ teen suffers from any kind of disability then it will already have been flagged to his family/ counsellors. If someone already has recognised behavioural problems - whether they have a social or medical cause - they need to be addressed before that person escalates to more dangerous behaviour. If this boy has Aspergers then it will be taken into account by the authorities already dealing with the case - a mental condition is not a carte blanche to assault other members of society.

Ali, I don't think you should contact the police. You are too removed from the situation and without first hand knowledge might be reporting a skewed perception of events. Just tell your co-worker that you think she should follow this up with the school and as a family member she should raise her concerns that this is serious incident. I doubt the school will be able to go into details of the other pupil's situation, but they may be able to set her mind at rest re the suspension being the end of the matter.

Yznhymr · 05-23-2007, 04:08 PM

After re-reading the original post, I can't but help but be reminded of Richard Hatch when he rubbed his nakie parts up against Sue Hawk on Survivor All-Stars. I mean my gosh, if a grown woman freaked out like she did, how much more traumatic for a child?

I also know from personal experience. When I was 14, I was in a department store minding my own business when this creepy guy twice my size walks between me and the clothes I was looking at and grabs my crotchity area. I was immediately embarrassed and angry and could only think of getting away. When he started following me around, I ran (and I mean ran) out to the car to get my step dad’s gun so that I could protect myself. My mom stopped me and took me home. Then I had to re-live the very embarrassing scene by explaining in detail in to my step dad (who was a Sheriff Deputy) and to my mom what he did. They never did anything about it and I held it against them for a very long time.

That poor little girl is probably going through similar feelings and I feel extremely bad for her. Shame on her family for not doing everything they can to make sure she feels safe and comfortable going back to the school or going past that bus stop.

05-23-2007, 04:18 PM

Ask grandma' "is the school DOING something to ENSURE he CANNOT do this again". If the answer is anything but a resounding "YES", call.

glatt · 05-23-2007, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yznhymr

Shame on her family for not doing everything they can to make sure she feels safe and comfortable going back to the school or going past that bus stop.

This is unfair. There's nothing in the original post that states the girl feels unsafe now with the action her family has already taken.

xoxoxoBruce · 05-23-2007, 04:33 PM

I'm with LJ. The school knows about it and has acted, which means everyone involved knows. There are plenty of people, directly involved, and fully cognizant of what happened, to find a solution. Butt out.

Was Grandma asking for advice or just sharing the gossip? If it's the former doesn't she trust her children to do whats right?

Yznhymr · 05-23-2007, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt

This is unfair. There's nothing in the original post that states the girl feels unsafe now with the action her family has already taken.

Hmmm...you may be right. My parents were certainly oblivious. Have you ever experienced a painful memory when you pass a certain spot, hear a certain phrase, or hear the name of a person that has harmed you in some way? If so, then you can surmise she will, too. Hopfully she will have the memory limited to the boy and not about her family's reaction, like I do. Just sharing a POV. Thanks glatt for pointing that out.

xoxoxoBruce · 05-23-2007, 04:47 PM

Or she might laugh about it with her girlfriends, at a pajama party, down the road. We can't project what we think she should, could, would, feel.

Rexmons · 05-23-2007, 04:49 PM

maybe they should throw the kid into prison for a day and he can see how it feels to have someone much bigger than himself, who also has problems telling right from wrong, rubbing up against him. :drevilpinky2lip

Sundae · 05-23-2007, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Or she might laugh about it with her girlfriends, at a pajama party, down the road. We can't project what we think she should, could, would, feel.

Or maybe she will post it online as a random anecdote (the link is a Cellar post - my brief encounter with a verbal pervert).

I was very distressed at the time, and yes I felt dirty and violated. I put it in perspective given time, and it doesn't bother me in the slightest now. But it happened at an age I still had to leave the room when feminine hygiene products were advertised. Don't underestimate young'uns sensitivity, but don't overestimate its affect on their life as a whole.

xoxoxoBruce · 05-23-2007, 05:41 PM

Yeah, but it's strictly speculation. Concrete action based of speculation is unwise.

05-23-2007, 01:54 PM	#16
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	if the question is 'should YOU call the cops?' then, hell no. stay out of it. should you try to persuade your friend to, well, maybe. depends on the relationship you have. take care of your own kids. use it as an exapmle to educate them. other than that..... __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

05-23-2007, 02:47 PM	#17
Yznhymr the crowd goes wild! Join Date: May 2007 Location: USA Posts: 663	Please bear with me, I know this story is not the same caliber, but does illustrate my point... We had a situation where a strange man came into my front yard with two large (full-sized) schnauzers and he was “training” them. Now we have three miniature schnauzers and they were going nuts and my kids and wife were afraid to go outside. I went outside to ask him to take his dogs elsewhere. He began cussing me and threatening me in my own yard. One dog was chained to a post but the other was free and he had his whistle in his hand and I didn’t want him sending his dog to attack me so I got a camcorder and went back out. While taping, I got him say his name and his refusal to leave, so then I called out to neighbors to call the cops. During this time one of my friends walked up from two doors down and this man’s dog that was chained jumped up and bit him. He was able to get away from the dog. The police showed up and they called for an ambulance to check my friend out. They took both dogs away from the man. In our state, it is required that the animal be quarantined for at least 10 days. After that, it is up to Animal Control to determine what to do with the animal based on whether it has a history of biting. They called my friend and asked if he wanted them to put the dogs down. He said he didn’t want to press charges or have the dogs put down, but would get back with them before the 10 days were up. He called me for advice, and I said this: “Recently a boy in the news was attacked by a dog that bit his face and he will be scarred for life. That dog had been involved in a previous biting incident and that man did not have the dog put down. If he only knew that his decision could have saved this little boy from the pain and life long scars, he would have made a different decision. I bet he feels very bad now. Do you want that hanging over you if that ever happened?” He went ahead and decided to let them release the dogs to the owner. I hope they never attack another person. But the point here is, your friend needs to understand the POTENTIAL future consequences of their decision. I hope that helps. PS. Here is the story I refer to: Settlement reached for small child attacked by landlord's dog - Our client, a 4-year old boy, was attacked in his driveway by a Golden Retriever. The dog was owned by the landlord. The landlord was close to the dog, but the dog was not on a leash at the time of the attack. The boy was bitten in the face and lip, sustaining permanent scarring and irregularity of the lip. A lawsuit was filed and depositions (statements under oath) of the dog owner and his neighbors revealed that the dog had attacked and bitten another child in the face one year prior to attacking our client. __________________ "The pride system tends to intensify the self-hate against which it is supposed to be a defense, since any failure to live up to one's tyrannical shoulds or of the world to honor one's claims leads to feelings of worthlessness." Bernard J. Paris, Ph.D.

05-23-2007, 02:49 PM	#18
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	A Golden? They're usually very docile. It's the little yappers you gotta worry about. __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

05-23-2007, 03:45 PM	#20
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	My daughter is in second grade. There's a boy in her class who I believe is autistic. Not sure. Nobody has told us or the other parents what the name of his condition is, but there is a special teacher in the classroom just for him. He sounds very similar to the boy here. This guy doesn't make connections with other kids the way you and I are used to kids behaving. He doesn't have empathy. My daughter is nice to him and patient with him, but doesn't really consider him a friend. I think he likes her more than he likes most of the other kids in the class. Couple months ago, he walked up to her while she was sitting at her desk working in class, and he punched her in the head. He did this to a couple other kids the same week. Over the course of the year, there had been other more minor incidents as well. Our daughter understands how his condition makes him more likely to do things like what he did. She doesn't hold it against him. But we didn't want her to grow up thinking that it's OK to be somebody's punching bag. We didn't want her to feel like his needs were more important than hers. So even though the incident was over and had been handled by the teacher, we talked to everyone at the school. Both teachers. The principal. The guidance counselor. The school's reaction was awesome. They moved him to a different location in the classroom so our daughter isn't in his field of view. The teacher has more support from the school administration. Everyone is focusing more attention on the situation, and it has improved dramatically. Maybe I'm lucky to have such a good school, but I can't help thinking that a school has better resources than the cops do for dealing with something like this. If I were the parent of any of the kids involved, and the school wasn't responsive, then I would call the cops. Last edited by glatt; 05-23-2007 at 04:08 PM.

05-23-2007, 04:08 PM	#22
Yznhymr the crowd goes wild! Join Date: May 2007 Location: USA Posts: 663	After re-reading the original post, I can't but help but be reminded of Richard Hatch when he rubbed his nakie parts up against Sue Hawk on Survivor All-Stars. I mean my gosh, if a grown woman freaked out like she did, how much more traumatic for a child? I also know from personal experience. When I was 14, I was in a department store minding my own business when this creepy guy twice my size walks between me and the clothes I was looking at and grabs my crotchity area. I was immediately embarrassed and angry and could only think of getting away. When he started following me around, I ran (and I mean ran) out to the car to get my step dad’s gun so that I could protect myself. My mom stopped me and took me home. Then I had to re-live the very embarrassing scene by explaining in detail in to my step dad (who was a Sheriff Deputy) and to my mom what he did. They never did anything about it and I held it against them for a very long time. That poor little girl is probably going through similar feelings and I feel extremely bad for her. Shame on her family for not doing everything they can to make sure she feels safe and comfortable going back to the school or going past that bus stop. __________________ "The pride system tends to intensify the self-hate against which it is supposed to be a defense, since any failure to live up to one's tyrannical shoulds or of the world to honor one's claims leads to feelings of worthlessness." Bernard J. Paris, Ph.D.

05-23-2007, 04:18 PM	#23
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	Ask grandma' "is the school DOING something to ENSURE he CANNOT do this again". If the answer is anything but a resounding "YES", call.

05-23-2007, 04:33 PM	#25
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	I'm with LJ. The school knows about it and has acted, which means everyone involved knows. There are plenty of people, directly involved, and fully cognizant of what happened, to find a solution. Butt out. Was Grandma asking for advice or just sharing the gossip? If it's the former doesn't she trust her children to do whats right? __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

05-23-2007, 04:47 PM	#27
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Or she might laugh about it with her girlfriends, at a pajama party, down the road. We can't project what we think she should, could, would, feel. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

05-23-2007, 04:49 PM	#28
Rexmons - Kavkaz United - Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 613	maybe they should throw the kid into prison for a day and he can see how it feels to have someone much bigger than himself, who also has problems telling right from wrong, rubbing up against him. :drevilpinky2lip __________________ "Life's a bitch but God forbid the bitch divorce me..."

05-23-2007, 05:41 PM	#30
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Yeah, but it's strictly speculation. Concrete action based of speculation is unwise. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

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