Camp Guantanamo So Fuckin' Awful - Page 2

elSicomoro · 08-11-2003, 10:52 AM

I suspect Bruce was referring to civil courts, not military (which is how the German soldiers you referred to were tried).

xoxoxoBruce · 08-11-2003, 12:35 PM

That's true, Brian. The spies/saboteurs that were landed by submarine here, with orders to disrupt shipping. They had orders to try and incite the longshoremen to cause work stoppages and plant explosives to destroy dock facilities. If I remember correctly, the whole plan was exposed, because least 2 of them were caught on the beach.
However, this is a rather different animal than POW's that were brought to this country. They were repatriated to Germany and Italy, many against their will having been seduced by what they saw here.

Whit · 08-12-2003, 03:40 AM

     Ah, now I understand Bruce, I was speaking of the people that were taken out of the US and sent to Guantanamo. Like the Intel guy we discussed on this board... um... somewhere... Sorry, it's too late and I'm to lazy to find it. You were speaking of people taken from elsewhere. We talking about two different situations.
     Um, not to stir things up but holding a lot of those people, as they are held without charges, is a violation of the Geneva Conventions. That doesn't piss me off as much as the US Citizens that are held without charges but I still don't much like it. Of course, I don't have too. All I can really do is vote next election, and I will.

08-12-2003, 06:41 AM

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

I don't think he was <b>sent to Guantanamo</b>. I would be extremely interested in hearing that story, and having it verified by an independent third party. Because that would be extremely good for me to use in arguing against Bush. But I certainly don't believe anyone has been removed from the United States and taken to Guantanamo.

Undertoad · 08-12-2003, 07:50 AM

The Intel guy Maher Mofeid "Mike" Hawash pleaded guilty last week to assisting the Taliban. He is not now, nor has he ever been held in Guantanamo. The argument is that he was held without due process.

Uryoces · 08-12-2003, 12:57 PM

This is a sticky one. He may or may not have done the things they claimed, but "Mike" was gone so long that I suspect he was coerced into giving a confession. Mike probably even believes he assisted the Taliban now.

I remember a show on the Discovery channel where the Phoenix [?] police department interrogated four kids for so long they had them convinced they had murdered 9 monks in a local Buddhist temple.

Undertoad · 08-12-2003, 03:02 PM

That seems like a stretch, but not impossible.

08-12-2003, 03:35 PM

Guilty until proven innocent. Unless you're the government. Then it's the other way around.

juju · 08-12-2003, 04:48 PM

There was a story on This American Life (act two) last year about how the police convinced a 14 year old kid that he murdered his own sister. DNA evidence later proved that he didn't do it, but they kept him in the interrogation room for so long that he'd believe anything they said. They actually convinced him he did something that he didn't do, and he confessed to the crime.

I think there was also a Dateline or 60 Minutes show on police interrogation techniques being akin to brainwashing a while back. Not sure how it'd work against adults, as Mike Hawash was, though. But it seems to have happened many times in the past, where evidence has later proved that the confessors didn't actually do it.

xoxoxoBruce · 08-12-2003, 05:14 PM

When I was in High School the MA State Police rounded up a bunch of older guys for questioning about gasoline thefts from a gravel company.
They took them in the back room of the barracks one at a time and gave them the 3rd degree. Bucky Peck told them he didn't do it and when one of the cops called him a liar, Bucky punched him in the mouth. Needless to say, they beat the crap out of him. He told me "I's doin pretty good till they pulled them ju-jitsu's on me".
And now...back to the thread.

elSicomoro · 08-12-2003, 05:38 PM

I can't wait to see the fireworks that will occur if the Moussaoui case is tossed.

08-11-2003, 10:52 AM	#16
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	I suspect Bruce was referring to civil courts, not military (which is how the German soldiers you referred to were tried). Last edited by elSicomoro; 08-11-2003 at 10:55 AM.

08-11-2003, 12:35 PM	#17
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	That's true, Brian. The spies/saboteurs that were landed by submarine here, with orders to disrupt shipping. They had orders to try and incite the longshoremen to cause work stoppages and plant explosives to destroy dock facilities. If I remember correctly, the whole plan was exposed, because least 2 of them were caught on the beach. However, this is a rather different animal than POW's that were brought to this country. They were repatriated to Germany and Italy, many against their will having been seduced by what they saw here. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

08-12-2003, 03:40 AM	#18
Whit Umm ... yeah. Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Arkansas, USA Posts: 949	Ah, now I understand Bruce, I was speaking of the people that were taken out of the US and sent to Guantanamo. Like the Intel guy we discussed on this board... um... somewhere... Sorry, it's too late and I'm to lazy to find it. You were speaking of people taken from elsewhere. We talking about two different situations.      Um, not to stir things up but holding a lot of those people, as they are held without charges, is a violation of the Geneva Conventions. That doesn't piss me off as much as the US Citizens that are held without charges but I still don't much like it. Of course, I don't have too. All I can really do is vote next election, and I will. __________________ A friend will help you move. A true friend will help you move a body.

08-12-2003, 12:57 PM	#21
Uryoces 2nd Covenant, yo Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Pugetropolis Posts: 583	This is a sticky one. He may or may not have done the things they claimed, but "Mike" was gone so long that I suspect he was coerced into giving a confession. Mike probably even believes he assisted the Taliban now. I remember a show on the Discovery channel where the Phoenix [?] police department interrogated four kids for so long they had them convinced they had murdered 9 monks in a local Buddhist temple. __________________ The party's over ... the drink ... and the luck ... ran out.

08-12-2003, 05:14 PM	#25
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	When I was in High School the MA State Police rounded up a bunch of older guys for questioning about gasoline thefts from a gravel company. They took them in the back room of the barracks one at a time and gave them the 3rd degree. Bucky Peck told them he didn't do it and when one of the cops called him a liar, Bucky punched him in the mouth. Needless to say, they beat the crap out of him. He told me "I's doin pretty good till they pulled them ju-jitsu's on me". And now...back to the thread. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

08-12-2003, 06:41 AM	#19
dave Guest Posts: n/a	Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... I don't think he was <b>sent to Guantanamo</b>. I would be extremely interested in hearing that story, and having it verified by an independent third party. Because that would be extremely good for me to use in arguing against Bush. But I certainly don't believe anyone has been removed from the United States and taken to Guantanamo.

08-12-2003, 07:50 AM	#20
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	The Intel guy Maher Mofeid "Mike" Hawash pleaded guilty last week to assisting the Taliban. He is not now, nor has he ever been held in Guantanamo. The argument is that he was held without due process.

08-12-2003, 03:02 PM	#22
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	That seems like a stretch, but not impossible.

08-12-2003, 03:35 PM	#23
dave Guest Posts: n/a	Guilty until proven innocent. Unless you're the government. Then it's the other way around.

08-12-2003, 04:48 PM	#24
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	There was a story on This American Life (act two) last year about how the police convinced a 14 year old kid that he murdered his own sister. DNA evidence later proved that he didn't do it, but they kept him in the interrogation room for so long that he'd believe anything they said. They actually convinced him he did something that he didn't do, and he confessed to the crime. I think there was also a Dateline or 60 Minutes show on police interrogation techniques being akin to brainwashing a while back. Not sure how it'd work against adults, as Mike Hawash was, though. But it seems to have happened many times in the past, where evidence has later proved that the confessors didn't actually do it.

08-12-2003, 05:38 PM	#26
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	I can't wait to see the fireworks that will occur if the Moussaoui case is tossed.

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