What it means to be an American

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by Kitsune

We set aside one day a year to remember those that fought for our freedoms. The rest of the year, we fight to give up those freedoms because we feel threatened.

Brilliant! Not to sound snarky, but is that your quote? It's the most succint commentary on the current situation that I can find.

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by richlevy

Brilliant! Not to sound snarky, but is that your quote? It's the most succint commentary on the current situation that I can find.

Yeah, although similar commentary probably exists elsewhere. I cannot be the only person that finds the irony of thanking the soldiers for dying our freedoms while so many shout "we're at war, we have to make sacrifices".

[xoxoxoBruce]

Sounds cookie worthy to me.

[skysidhe]

Cookies and milk is a great American past time.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Kitsune

We set aside one day a year to remember those that fought for our freedoms. The rest of the year, we fight to give up those freedoms because we feel threatened.

Seems to me that most of the "surrendered freedoms" I hear people Cassandra-ing about of late are "freedoms" that people never actually had but have suddenly found sorely lacking, now that there's somebody they want to blame it on.

Personally, I feel just about as free as I did before 9/11 and PATRIOT. Maybe I'm just not yearning for the right kind of freedoms to generate the "police state" paranoia that's so fashionable these days.

What worries me are the people who want to disarm me in the hopes that if they do fewer outlaw kids will shoot each other (and anybody else standing nearby) over drugs, money and women.

It's cheaper than putting them in prison the first time they commit a crime. And after all, society is to blame.

[skysidhe]

We outsource our jobs.

We don't see 'Made In America' labels anymore.

We try to balance political correctness by telling ourselves we are not afraid of the turbaned man or the long gowned middle eastener who walks through our grocery store.


( ps that said, I've known alot of people from India who are so cool)

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by Griff

= we drink vast quantities of Coors Light while watching NASCAR.
= we drink vast quantities of Pepsi while working.
= we drink vast quantities of water in bottles watching our kids play organized sports.
= we seem to have a lot of empty containers /metaphor

ooh! Very good! You get an A!*






*and the sexual dalliance of your choice. No animals.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Personally, I feel just about as free as I did before 9/11 and PATRIOT.

I sure as hell don't, when the government can illegally listen to my phone calls and illegally read my emails, then pass any illegally gleaned information to another law enforcement agency who can LEGALLY use that illegally obtained information to prosecute me.

Now obviously amateur radio stations can be used to pass sensitive information to terrorists and should be confiscated. That's not much of a stretch. Wouldn't affect me in the least but I think you'd change your tune, damn quick.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I sure as hell don't, when the government can illegally listen to my phone calls...

See, that's what I mean.

Which of your phone calls are likely illegally listened to? Do you regularly receive calls from suspected overseas terrorists? Domestic calls are not "listened to".

I remeber when I read that when monitoring an international call made by a non-US national being surveillied that NSA had to immediately cease if they figured out the other party was a US national. Seemed kinda extreme. These days, with how difficult it is to identify who the called party is, it's even more so.

And you do remeber the Clipper Chip, right? :-)

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

...and illegally read my emails...

I hate to break it to you, but plaintext email has never been anything close to secure.

If that worries you, you should encrypt it.; many people do.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Now obviously amateur radio stations can be used to pass sensitive information to terrorists and should be confiscated. That's not much of a stretch. Wouldn't affect me in the least but I think you'd change your tune, damn quick.

Which is exactly why radio amateurs radio operators have *always* been forbidden encrypt any of their messages...this is not new. They are also subject to stringent controls as to which country's nationals can pass messages though amateur radio.

FCC doesn't have to seize my radios to shut me down, all they need to do is lift my licence.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by skysidhe

We outsource our jobs.

We don't see 'Made In America' labels anymore.

Really? I do.

Originally Posted by skysidhe

( ps that said, I've known alot of people from India who are so cool)

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I sure as hell don't, when the government can illegally listen to my phone calls and illegally read my emails, then pass any illegally gleaned information to another law enforcement agency who can LEGALLY use that illegally obtained information to prosecute me.

Some people just love and trust big government implicitly, which is something I'll never understand given the track record of the three letter agencies and politicians that will be dealing with the information. They subscribe to the logic of "If you've done nothing wrong..." because they feel it could not possibly affect their lives. So, if it it isn't affecting them, it can't possibly affect anyone else as innocent and as shining of a citizen. So, what's the big deal? It isn't as if the government would ever use these powers for nefarious activities. Nooo, they would never do that. Because, of course, we are at war* and we have to feel comfortable with these measures until it ends**. So please, don't think of phone record collecting or warrantless wiretaps as "spying on citizens", think of it as an ever-vigilant, protective family member always at your side. An "older brother", if you will.

There really are times when I hope these people that have given into the irrational fear get the government they desire.


* - not really. Should Congress ever actually declare it, we'd have to cough up the cash to give full benefits to soldiers and, of all things, follow certain rules of engagement.

** - the "war on terrorism" will last as long as terrorism does. You figure it out.

[skysidhe]

Originally Posted by skysidhe

We outsource our jobs.

We don't see 'Made In America' labels anymore.

Originally Posted by MaggieL

Really? I do.

You do? Like what? Remingtons? :p


Great cartoon too btw. It's not their fault US CEOs ask them to work for much more than they would normally get there. We need to hold our politicians accountable. That said, I do wish sometimes I was talking to a person whose first language is english. I don't know why I just feel strange talking to someone in another country about my account.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

Which of your phone calls are likely illegally listened to?

How is "likely" relevant?

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I sure as hell don't, when the government can illegally listen to my phone calls and illegally read my emails, then pass any illegally gleaned information to another law enforcement agency who can LEGALLY use that illegally obtained information to prosecute me.

Now obviously amateur radio stations can be used to pass sensitive information to terrorists and should be confiscated. That's not much of a stretch. Wouldn't affect me in the least but I think you'd change your tune, damn quick.

If they can illegally do as they please so can I... they guy who comes for me dies, I feel bad for his family, but not bad enough, he and the government chooses it. It is very simple. I am a patriot.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

How is "likely" relevant?

Because he's not going to know if one is *actually* listened to. Unless he gets busted because of something he says, of course.