What is a relationship? - Page 2

Catwoman · 03-04-2005, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt

If you don't want to stop fishing, don't get married.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beestie

Wrong? Its been working for several thousand years. And how do we raise children in a world without families?

No, the myth of singular love has been believed for several thousand years. It's what keeps the family unit together. I'm not saying it's wrong to have children, and I'm certainly not saying the family unit is ineffective in its task - in fact it is one of the most sophisticated evolutionary mechanisms in nature.

Undertoad · 03-04-2005, 10:47 AM

If a practice crosses almost all cultural lines through history, there's probably something psychobiological about it.

cjjulie · 03-04-2005, 06:15 PM

I have no intention on leaving my husband. We have built a wonderful life together and our sex life has been AMAZING. We both have crushes on other people, and we both think it is healthy. It keeps it hot to know that others are attracted to you and you are attracted to others.

Griff · 03-04-2005, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beestie

And how do we raise children in a world without families?

The Party will raise them.

limey · 03-06-2005, 04:28 AM

Without the short-hand of labels wouldn't we all go nuts trying to work out what's going on with who?
Without the labels, wouldn't we all forever be making huge social gaffes? (Making a pass at a bloke I've just been introduced to by a woman friend of mine only to discover later that they're in an exclusive sexual relationship, for example?)
Can't you just take the labels as a short and definitely non-comprehensive starting point for identifying that person's place in the social grouping your moving in?
The label I object to most is not the relationship one, but the job one. Speaking as someone who has relatively often taken jobs that are a long way from defining me and my interests I found it hard to be defined as a hospital cleaner or an insurance broker. Neither of these terms were/are adequate descriptions of the person I am.
Yes, I know this post contradicts itself ....

OnyxCougar · 03-07-2005, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt

The whole point of marriage is that you are making a promise to choose the exclusive relationship. Of course there are more fish in the sea. You are making a promise to ignore those other fish. If you don't want to stop fishing, don't get married.

Amen.

I think relational labels are like ANY words....merely words. They describe ones relationship to another for the purpose of (1) telling other people what they mean to you in a shorthand fashion and (2) sometimes telling yourself what a person means to you.

The problem is when people don't agree on what that descriptive label means. "Wife" to one person may mean exclusivity, while to another it's simply the person I come home to every night and breed with.

The important part of any relationship is not what you call it, but what you do with it.

Catwoman · 03-07-2005, 07:59 AM

limey, the making a pass at a friend's partner thing - this is what I mean about ownership. Why is it wrong to come on to this person? No one else is in control of your actions. And if the partner chooses to reciprocate - that is their choice. Your mate can like it or lump it.

There was this fat old ugly bird in the pub the other night who was flirting with 'my' bloke - stroking his hair and stuff. 1) I can't do anything about it because it's her choice to flirt 2) it's already happening so even if I could do something about it (like slap her) IT'S ALREADY HAPPENING and 3) if he wanted to fuck her there is absolutely nothing I can do about it, whether we are in a relationship or not. Don't you see, it's his choice. And it would be the same the other way round. My choice.

Now, of course I can choose to abide by rules in a relationship. But the minute my true choice contradicts with these rules (and it will) is the moment to change them.

wolf · 03-07-2005, 12:04 PM

You don't have a "relationship" then. You have a fuckbuddy.

jaguar · 03-07-2005, 12:44 PM

Why? Where's the line? What exactly did cat say that crosses that? Most of it seemed to be facts to me, she can't do anything directly, just admonish later or end it.

Catwoman · 03-08-2005, 03:56 AM

He he he wolf. He he he. We have a debate about labels and she labels me!!

Ah, I'm not going to get through am I.

cjjulie · 03-08-2005, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catwoman

There was this fat old ugly bird in the pub the other night who was flirting with 'my' bloke - stroking his hair and stuff. 1) I can't do anything about it because it's her choice to flirt 2) it's already happening so even if I could do something about it (like slap her) IT'S ALREADY HAPPENING and 3) if he wanted to fuck her there is absolutely nothing I can do about it, whether we are in a relationship or not. Don't you see, it's his choice. And it would be the same the other way round. My choice.

Cat, if he didn't do anything to stop this big fat chick, then he is obviously not commited to the relationship and that would be the reason you are questioning everything. If it doesn't come naturally its not right....

Catwoman · 03-08-2005, 08:46 AM

It's not a relationship! I put 'my' bloke in inverted commas for a reason! Is no one understanding this!

jinx · 03-08-2005, 08:54 AM

If its not a relationship then who cares if someone was flirting with him, why even bring it up?
When you're in a relationship cat, you'll know it. It still won't matter if someone flirts, but that will be because of confidence, not aloofness.

Catwoman · 03-08-2005, 09:31 AM

*sigh*

Ok - I'm trying to break down people's perceptions of relationships. I don't label my relationship with this person not because of some outdated 60s hippy shit, but because there are no rules. I don't call it a relationship but:

- we live together
- we sleep together
- we cuddle a lot
- we have sex
- we do everything together
- we know each other's parents
- I'm his plus one
- most people think we are boyfriend and girlfriend
- we love being with each other

I could go on. To most people, this is a relationship. Just if you call it that (and ok I don't just mean a word, I mean accepting it into your consciousness as a relationship) you lose your freedom. I don't care who you are or how long you've been married, you WILL at some point fancy someone else. The only difference is I have the freedom to pursue it, if I wish. It's like all the good points of a relationship without the holding-back or tieing-down.

I met a man the other night who had been married 20 years or so, and he wanted to travel, to explore, but 'she'd kill me if she found out' and 'she'd never let me'. He was living his life for his wife. And this happens all the time, often to lesser extent on the surface, but not really. You think you own someone. The fat bird/affairs thing was just an example. Just the same as I wouldn't stop him going to China. Just like he wouldn't stop me doing anything I want. I have the warmth, comfort, 'love' if you want to call it that and all the rest without compromising my self in any way.

I still don;t think I've explained this well. I hope someone picks it up.

jinx · 03-08-2005, 10:05 AM

Ok, so what you're saying is your "relationship" is superior to others because you are prepared to walk away at any point? Someone walks away 50% of the time or so, its good to be prepared for it, but to define your whole relationship around the possibility.... I don't know. I don't see the point.
I'm not one who belives that marriage means you can never again fuck anyone else (I'm not christian), but add a couple of kids and a mortgage and see how thrilled you are when your bloke wants to skip off to China for a few years.

03-04-2005, 06:15 PM	#18
cjjulie Colonist Extraordinaire Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: CT Posts: 201	I have no intention on leaving my husband. We have built a wonderful life together and our sex life has been AMAZING. We both have crushes on other people, and we both think it is healthy. It keeps it hot to know that others are attracted to you and you are attracted to others. __________________ Fun,Fearless,Female

03-06-2005, 04:28 AM	#20
limey Encroaching on your decrees Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: An island within the south-west coast of Scotland Posts: 7,016	Without the short-hand of labels wouldn't we all go nuts trying to work out what's going on with who? Without the labels, wouldn't we all forever be making huge social gaffes? (Making a pass at a bloke I've just been introduced to by a woman friend of mine only to discover later that they're in an exclusive sexual relationship, for example?) Can't you just take the labels as a short and definitely non-comprehensive starting point for identifying that person's place in the social grouping your moving in? The label I object to most is not the relationship one, but the job one. Speaking as someone who has relatively often taken jobs that are a long way from defining me and my interests I found it hard to be defined as a hospital cleaner or an insurance broker. Neither of these terms were/are adequate descriptions of the person I am. Yes, I know this post contradicts itself .... __________________ Living it up on the edge ... of civilisation, within the southwest coast of

03-07-2005, 07:59 AM	#22
Catwoman stalking a Tom Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: on the edge of the english channel Posts: 1,000	limey, the making a pass at a friend's partner thing - this is what I mean about ownership. Why is it wrong to come on to this person? No one else is in control of your actions. And if the partner chooses to reciprocate - that is their choice. Your mate can like it or lump it. There was this fat old ugly bird in the pub the other night who was flirting with 'my' bloke - stroking his hair and stuff. 1) I can't do anything about it because it's her choice to flirt 2) it's already happening so even if I could do something about it (like slap her) IT'S ALREADY HAPPENING and 3) if he wanted to fuck her there is absolutely nothing I can do about it, whether we are in a relationship or not. Don't you see, it's his choice. And it would be the same the other way round. My choice. Now, of course I can choose to abide by rules in a relationship. But the minute my true choice contradicts with these rules (and it will) is the moment to change them. __________________ I've decided I'm not going to have a signature anymore.

03-07-2005, 12:04 PM	#23
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	You don't have a "relationship" then. You have a fuckbuddy. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

03-07-2005, 12:44 PM	#24
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	Why? Where's the line? What exactly did cat say that crosses that? Most of it seemed to be facts to me, she can't do anything directly, just admonish later or end it. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

03-04-2005, 10:47 AM	#17
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	If a practice crosses almost all cultural lines through history, there's probably something psychobiological about it.

03-08-2005, 03:56 AM	#25
Catwoman stalking a Tom Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: on the edge of the english channel Posts: 1,000	He he he wolf. He he he. We have a debate about labels and she labels me!! Ah, I'm not going to get through am I. __________________ I've decided I'm not going to have a signature anymore.

03-08-2005, 08:46 AM	#27
Catwoman stalking a Tom Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: on the edge of the english channel Posts: 1,000	It's not a relationship! I put 'my' bloke in inverted commas for a reason! Is no one understanding this! __________________ I've decided I'm not going to have a signature anymore.

03-08-2005, 08:54 AM	#28
jinx Come on, cat. Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: general vicinity of Philadelphia area Posts: 7,013	If its not a relationship then who cares if someone was flirting with him, why even bring it up? When you're in a relationship cat, you'll know it. It still won't matter if someone flirts, but that will be because of confidence, not aloofness. __________________ Crying won't help you, praying won't do you no good.

03-08-2005, 09:31 AM	#29
Catwoman stalking a Tom Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: on the edge of the english channel Posts: 1,000	sigh Ok - I'm trying to break down people's perceptions of relationships. I don't label my relationship with this person not because of some outdated 60s hippy shit, but because there are no rules. I don't call it a relationship but: - we live together - we sleep together - we cuddle a lot - we have sex - we do everything together - we know each other's parents - I'm his plus one - most people think we are boyfriend and girlfriend - we love being with each other I could go on. To most people, this is a relationship. Just if you call it that (and ok I don't just mean a word, I mean accepting it into your consciousness as a relationship) you lose your freedom. I don't care who you are or how long you've been married, you WILL at some point fancy someone else. The only difference is I have the freedom to pursue it, if I wish. It's like all the good points of a relationship without the holding-back or tieing-down. I met a man the other night who had been married 20 years or so, and he wanted to travel, to explore, but 'she'd kill me if she found out' and 'she'd never let me'. He was living his life for his wife. And this happens all the time, often to lesser extent on the surface, but not really. You think you own someone. The fat bird/affairs thing was just an example. Just the same as I wouldn't stop him going to China. Just like he wouldn't stop me doing anything I want. I have the warmth, comfort, 'love' if you want to call it that and all the rest without compromising my self in any way. I still don;t think I've explained this well. I hope someone picks it up. __________________ I've decided I'm not going to have a signature anymore.

03-08-2005, 10:05 AM	#30
jinx Come on, cat. Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: general vicinity of Philadelphia area Posts: 7,013	Ok, so what you're saying is your "relationship" is superior to others because you are prepared to walk away at any point? Someone walks away 50% of the time or so, its good to be prepared for it, but to define your whole relationship around the possibility.... I don't know. I don't see the point. I'm not one who belives that marriage means you can never again fuck anyone else (I'm not christian), but add a couple of kids and a mortgage and see how thrilled you are when your bloke wants to skip off to China for a few years. __________________ Crying won't help you, praying won't do you no good.

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