Should I be an ant or a grasshopper?

[Clodfobble]

Here's the reality (or at least the reality I experienced.)

Whether you spend the nest egg, or whether you don't... you won't be getting need-based financial aid in any useful amount. Need-based aid goes to people who are poor, and solidly middle class families just don't get any. My parents had no nest egg, and we thought my FAFSA looked pretty needy, yet one college said I qualified for nothing, while the other offered me a grand total of $500 a year (their tuition at the time was $30,000 per year.)

Merit-based aid is where it's at. Do you think your daughter has the academic skills to be a National Merit Scholar? (This is determined by PSAT scores her junior year.) If so, she can get a full ride from several state schools. If not that, will she be in the top 10% of her class by GPA? (Getting straight A's doesn't necessarily guarantee this.) Top 10% is an important academic cutoff for a lot of schools to offer merit-based aid as well.

And finally, I'll throw in my standard rant about college costs: state schools, state schools, state schools. Success is not increased simply by attending a stupidly expensive school. It's about picking a meaningful major first, and choosing a solid program second. In Austin, for example, it is a widely known fact that medical offices prefer nurses who graduated from Austin Community College (maybe $1500 a year,) rather than the University of Texas ($25,000 per year,) because the program is simply better. The nurses coming out of ACC have hands-on experience, while the UT students are only book-educated.

In fact, speaking of community colleges... if she still feels pretty directionless, but is a good student, you might try looking into having her take one or two classes at the local community college while she's in high school. Sometimes you can get equivalent high school credit for them, sometimes you just get a small head start on some college credits, but the important thing is she gets to try out the college experience, and figure out if there are some specific classes that interest her. Sometimes the smart kids are directionless because they're bored, and if you find that one thing that inspires her, she'll be off and running.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by glatt

She is brilliant, however she is not curious about the real world at all and would be happy to just read books in her room all the time. She doesn't like trying new things. I think because she's afraid to fail at them.

Afraid of having any attempt, personally rewarding or not, critiqued in microscopic detail? Sounds like a prime target for the first ne'er-do-well with a nefarious social life.

He is smart and very curious about the world. He's always making stuff and taking things apart and wants to cook in the kitchen, and if I'm working on a project or something, he gets right in there to see what I'm doing and wants to try it too... He says he wants to be an architect, but I can picture him doing just about anything.

Becoming the next Neil deGrasse Tyson could be expensive, however my buddy, the "Joe-the-Plumber" contractor, has a fleet of cars/motorcycles, and a million+ house at the DE shore.

As far as savings go, we have a big nest egg in 401Ks for retirement, and I'm not going to touch that until retirement. We have other savings that I consider the nest egg that might get spent on stuff and is for emergencies and stuff.

I'd bet not many people die wishing they have more savings.

A minivan would be useful some of the time, but a pain the rest of the time, or a mid sized sedan would be a good compromise.

A pain? The pain of feeling you're not sacrificing enough? The pain of taking up an extra 6 inches of community parking space? The pain of a couple mpg less even though without it you have to make an extra trip? The pain of not being able to show your brilliance at creative solutions when shit happens, as it always does?

C'mon man, live a little, you've already fucked up the park designed to shield the residents from the bustling crowds.

[Pico and ME]

Ummm..yeah, for you and yours, shcolarships are the be all and end all and are a effing business at this point...there are just all kinds! Learn all you can about what scholarships your kid can earn and pronto.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I'd bet not many people die wishing they have more savings.

True, but the trick is to die at the right time.

[infinite monkey]

glatt,

As a financial aid professional for 11 years, I think I can clear up a few misconceptions and offer a bit of guidance. I'll do it in "bullet" points the best I can. Honestly, we could talk for hours on these subjects. So I'll just post stuff as it comes to my mind.

1) Dependent vs Independent: a lot of students get upset because they don't meet the criteria for independency as defined by the Dept of Ed. I understand their point, some of them: they're living on their own...maybe their parents don't give a hoot about their education...and it seems unfair to make them report parental information. However, an independent student with no dependents doesn't need to make a whole lot of money to be clear out of the running for pell grant, whereas a family with a modest/decent income can be eligible because of a number of things that are taken into consideration in the methodology: number in household, number in college (when you have 2 in college you'll get more income exclusion due to that), years until parent's projected retirement, two working parents have some employment exclusion because it costs for two people to work outside the home (because of things like childcare, transportation, meals),etc.

The best thing I learned in my early days was how to hand calculate an EFC (expected family contribution which is the number that is calculated when a FAFSA is submitted.) There is so much more to it than "we make this" so "we'll get this." Learning this manually really opened my eyes to how it works and helped me better advise students.

2) There is a space for 'cash, savings, and checking' and if you have substantial savings the Dept will indeed expect some of that (not all) to be utilized in educating your child. This field is self-reporting and is not a verifiable element if the family gets randomly selected by the processing center for 'verification' (as approximately 1/3 of FAFSA apps are.) The following manual has worksheets in it, with tables, so you can see how much of a bite of it they might take. http://ifap.ed.gov/fsahandbook/attachments/1213AVG.pdf

3) As to 'owing your child a four year degree' it is the view of the Dept of Ed that a parent is indeed responsible for their child's education TO THE EXTENT THEY ARE ABLE. My feeling is that, as good parents like you are, you do want to give your kids advantages and I believe parents need to sacrifice a bit so their kids can get that education. Mine did; they didn't go to college and they were damn sure we would.

4) Scholarships are indeed important and there are SO many ways to get those. Apply through the school; apply for the database through a site such as finaid.gov; visit civic organizations. It all adds up. Students need to be very proactive in this search.

5) Many wonderful students are saving a ton of money by doing their first two years at a community college then transferring those credits to university. I see a lot of that, and it makes sense. Get the gen-eds out of the way, transfer to school of choice with that savings still there to use or at least student loan borrowing power they didn't have to use at the CC. These aren't your old school community colleges (this one, in fact, was written up in a majorly major big city newspaper as a model for what CCs should be.)

6) A useful tool is the Fafsa forecaster: which can give you estimates on what you might expect. http://studentaid.ed.gov/fafsa/estimate

7) All FA offices operate under EVER-CHANGING federal regulations, but many office policies vary in their administration.

8) Please be aware of some shady schools (not naming names, no way) who never tell you that the credits you get there will never transfer to another school. I imagine your kids would be leaning towards a more traditional education, anyway.

9) You can buy a farm but you have to live on a working farm or else it just counts as another asset. Back in the day they actually wanted to know the value of your home then felt it was unfair to expect a family to sell their home to pay for college.

If you have specific questions feel free to ask here or PM.

Your kids are 4 years away and you are right to start planning: that puts you way ahead of the ballgame. Keep in mind that things could also be very very different in 4 years, the way the regs change.

Do you have a financial advisor? If not you might consider it: how best to utilize your saved money while keeping in mind your kid's college education.

[footfootfoot]

Originally Posted by infinite monkey

glatt,

As a financial aid professional for 11 years, I think I can clear up a few misconceptions and offer a bit of guidance. I'll do it in "bullet" points the best I can. Honestly, I could talk for hours on these subjects while your eyes glaze over. So I'll just post stuff as it comes to my mind.

[infinite monkey]

Well, of course that was part of my apprehension about posting here, but I would be remiss if I didn't offer an insider's view.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by infinite monkey

glatt,

As a financial aid professional for 11 years, I think I can clear up a few misconceptions and offer a bit of guidance.

Thanks!

There's a lot there to digest. I'm going to poke around int hose links and I'm sure I'll have questions.

You're the best!

[Lamplighter]

5) Many wonderful students are saving a ton of money by doing their first two years at a community college then transferring those credits to university. I see a lot of that, and it makes sense. Get the gen-eds out of the way, transfer to school of choice with that savings still there to use or at least student loan borrowing power they didn't have to use at the CC. These aren't your old school community colleges (this one, in fact, was written up in a majorly major big city newspaper as a model for what CCs should be.)

Our family lives by this advise.

But transfer students need to be well-aware...
When they do transfer, there is a different world to be negotiated.

The straight-A student in high school and/or community college is sometimes lost
in the herd of 3rd and 4th year students who have already survived the weed-out processes,
and formed their more demanding "adult-level" of study habits.

[footfootfoot]

Originally Posted by infinite monkey

Well, of course that was part of my apprehension about posting here, but I would be remiss if I didn't offer an insider's view.

What was that about people needing more hats? You know I love you, too.

[footfootfoot]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

Our family lives by this advise.

But transfer students need to be well-aware...
When they do transfer, there is a different world to be negotiated.

The straight-A student in high school and/or community college is sometimes lost
in the herd of 3rd and 4th year students who have already survived the weed-out processes,
and formed their more demanding "adult-level" of study habits.

STOP STOP with the bad spelling. My fucking brain is about to explode.

(Not you specifically, Lamp. It's just everyone today. The Devisive Sceptics needing Advise.)

[infinite monkey]

I got your hat right here:

[footfootfoot]

You know I inherited one of those from my father when he passed away. Sadly, my wife put it in the dryer and the orange hair turned into a very short afro.

[Lamplighter]

Originally Posted by footfootfoot

STOP STOP with the bad spelling. My fucking brain is about to explode.

I'll try harder to take your advice.

mia colpa

[infinite monkey]

Oh, and clod referred to taking college course at the CC while still in HS.

In Ohio we have PSEOP (post secondary enrollment options program.)

Many student graduate from HS and receive an associates at the same time! Talk about a leg up!

This article says 'various states' but all I see mentioned are Minnesota and Ohio. You may have something similar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_Se...llment_Options