Gitmo, what to do and why?

[Aliantha]

Naru is not so bad Zen. In fact, the 'prisoners' there pretty much have the run of the island. It's an interesting situation really. australia has security guards etc there, but that's mostly to protect the compound and it's accessories from theft rather than making sure the prisoners are detained. The situation is basically that there's nowhere to go anyway, so there's really quite a lot of freedom in comparison to somewhere like villawood as an example.

[Aliantha]

Did you also know that the new detention centre they're building in NT will have a playstation in every room? They'll also have basketball courts and football fields along with computers etc.

While being detained would certainly not be a holiday, there are certain myths surrounding them and the purpose they serve is valuable in many ways.

When boat people etc arrive in Australia, there should be a way of containing them while their health is checked and in most cases treated. Their status as a refugee needs to be confirmed. Also, the items they're carrying need to be assessed.

Did you know that Australian fishermen in the gulf regularly encounter Indonesian camps on the coastline, complete with small crops growing, and poultry and other farm animals in pens, and sometimes not contained at all? This is not a desirable situation and these fisherpeople are clearly breaking many laws, the least of which, to name a couple are illegal fishing and entering the country without a visa, along with endangering native wildlife while breaking any number of quarantine laws. It's quite frightening really.

[Aliantha]

Here is a list of recreational items going into the upgraded detention centre in NT.

Furniture, Fittings and Equipment
109. A range of equipment will be purchased to increase and improve amenities for
detainees. Items may include:
• televisions
• dvd players
• sound systems, karaoke systems
• table tennis tables
• gym equipment
• pool tables
• play stations
• soccer and cricket sets
• tables and chairs for recreation facilities
• couches, and
• office furniture.

There will also be disabled facilities, although considering most of the detainees at the NT centre are fishermen and crews, one would wonder how many disabled detainees there will be.

This information comes from this report which you might find interesting.

Seems a lot different to Gitmo to me.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

Seems a lot different to Gitmo to me.

A bigger difference than the amenities is how they got there. They are illegal immigrants. Gitmo detainees are foreigners snatched up in foreign countries. If Australia were grabbing people out of Indonesia and dropping them in Nauru, there might be a stronger Gitmo comparison.

A better comparison might be to our illegal immigrant holding pens, where Australia wins on the amenities, but the kafkaesqueness is probably a draw.

[Aliantha]

That's true HM.

Like Zen, I'm opposed to the way some of the refugees and illegal immigrants are treated, but on the other hand, there has to be a way to absorb them into society and one of the biggest problems Australia faces is our lack of legal population if that makes any sense. We have large numbers of what are referred to as 'boat people' arrive here every year, and the community at large has to foot the bill. While I don't have a problem with this as such, it does put a strain on the economy. That being said, we're a rich nation so I think we can afford it.

It's a tight rope the government walks. I'm hoping our new regimen will do something about the situation in some of the other detention centres around the country.

[ZenGum]

Ali, true points, and I didn't know about the new facility in the Top End. I was thinking about Villawood and Baxter detention center in S.A.. The latter is designed and built like a prison.
Certainly some processing of all arrival is necessary. Temporary housing of Indonesian fisherman who were never going to stay is quite a different matter from processing asylum seekers.
But did you know, that most of the people who are in Australia illegally arrived legally on tourist or work visas and never left? Boat people - a few hundred to a few thousand per year - are relatively scarce.
I'd like to see some more Sudanese refugees. The really tall ones. They should make good fast bowlers and ruckmen. And some more Islanders - the Wallabies' tight five aren't up to scratch.

[Aliantha]

That's true. Places like Villawood are terrible and there needs to be some action there. Personally, I'm thinking of booking myself into the one up north after it's done though. Seems like it'll be pretty nice.

One thing I'd say about the illegal fishermen is that from some perspectives, the crime they're committing is worse than overstaying a visa. They are litterally stealing from the Australian fishermen who are trying to earn a living under often very difficult circumstances.

My father is married to a Phillipina and her nephew comes over most xmas's and every time he comes, my father has to put down $10k against him overstaying his visa. I was surprised when I learned that. Apparently people from the Phillipines in particular are very good at missing their planes.

We don't need more islanders. The ones we have cause enough trouble. I'd go along with the Sudanese though. They're generally very good athletes. Might help out with basketball too.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Why does anyone think noncitizens, captured on foreign fields in far wars, should be tried in civilian courts? These are in effect if perhaps not the letter of the law prisoners of war. No responsible government tries enemy prisoners of war, whether they've been annoying to it or not.

That some think this is the right way to proceed has been made plain. Why they think that way, well, there's where the explanation runs thin. What does it look like?

The try-them faction seems to be following a defeat-America agenda. This is treason, as the Constitution defines it, and no yelling about not saying treason aloud should be allowed or contemplated. Traitors, of course, will do exactly the thing they should not. It's the sort of thing that persuades me they are either not democrats, or else possessed only of summer-day IQ's.

[Ibby]

YES THES PPL SHUD B IMPRISONED ON NO CHARG 4EVER CUZ YR A TRAITOR

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Great example, Ibbie; how very obliging of you. :p But Undertoad doesn't want me to have confirmation bias.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Why does anyone think noncitizens, captured on foreign fields in far wars, should be tried in civilian courts? These are in effect if perhaps not the letter of the law prisoners of war. No responsible government tries enemy prisoners of war, whether they've been annoying to it or not.

We've gone out of our way to deny that they are POWs, and to assert their criminality. POWs don't get tried, but criminals do.

[TheMercenary]

I think if we re-classified some of them as POW's it might help deal with the fodder. Some are truely terrorists and should remain in status as criminals.

[Aliantha]

yes but how do you tell the difference if you don't have a trial?

[Cicero]

Dismantle the whole thing and if you actually have evidence against people, use it, or stuff it!!

Don't worry, we're going to call it anything but what it was....A bunch of abductions. That's what I call it when you hold people without charges on "suspicion". (suspicion) is not an actual charge.

Pinochet!! lol!!