11-15-2012, 01:10 PM | #16 | |
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The attackers were themselves being attacked by the locals, who did want to support the Ambassador (and some had been hired for that purpose). The video shows the Ambassador being discovered barely alive, by the local defenders. But later, the terrorists regrouped, and grabbed Stevens (the Ambassador), and began dragging him down the street. The videographer was driven off, since he was with the local defenders. The local defenders saw this, and renewed their attack on the terrorists, and drove them off, recovering Stevens body - and took him straightaway to the hospital. None of the others were dragged, or taken to the hospital, because the mortar shell that landed on the roof they were fighting from, mangled them so badly - it was clear they were dead. |
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11-15-2012, 01:24 PM | #17 | |
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"I don't see what's so triffic about creating people as people and then getting' upset 'cos they act like people." ~Adam Young, Good Omens "I don't see why it matters what is written. Not when it's about people. It can always be crossed out." ~Adam Young, Good Omens |
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11-15-2012, 02:03 PM | #18 | ||
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Those defenders were too little, and too late, to save the Ambassador. They were driven off after Stevens was found alive, by the terrorists. Then he was dragged briefly, before they re-grouped and drove the terrorists away, for the last time, and recovered Stevens. THEN they took him straightaway, to the hospital. The intel was perfectly clear. Consulate had an "attack" alarm to let the Embassy in Tripoli know they were under attack. That was pressed as soon as the attack started. Subsequent phone calls and emails were sent both by the Ambassador and by the ex-Seal type CIA agents who were 1/3rd of a mile away, on Consulate grounds, but in another building (the Annex). They could distinctly hear the gunfire, and called it in to their superiors, as well. The CIA guys were told to evacuate with the Americans that they could get from the Consulate - away to the nearby airport and fly out on a plane that was standing by for them. This is the article on the revised account given by the CIA on this: Quote:
Did you notice the "he was almost certainly dead" part? That's because they heard that Stevens body had been dragged before it was recovered and taken to the hospital. They're not going to say "Oh yeah, Stevens body was bouncing right along the street there, for 1/2 a mile before it could be recovered". That would not be PC, and would not CTAsses. This timeline does appear to support a better response, from the Embassy in Tripoli, however. Dohan (killed on the annex roof with Woods), was from Tripoli's response team. Re: name calling You get what you give. You want name calling, you'll get it right back. Re: facts All the facts are not in. The above statements I made are believed accurate, but the CIA and State Department, and the White House, are all trying to CTAsses on this one - so the real truth is not clear yet. Senate hearing on this begin next week. |
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11-15-2012, 03:05 PM | #19 | |
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As this stream of information flows to us, we collect more of it. Evaluating the information for consistency, reliability, accuracy, pertinence helps us understand reality, what really happened. You say "the above statements I made are believed accurate"--a somewhat tortured construction "statements are believed accurate"? Meaning, I think, that someone believes them to be accurate. You clearly believe them to be accurate. I'm not persuaded without more background about your sources. You've clearly disregarded several sources, the statements from the President, the CIA, the Pentagon; you've given your reasons for disbelieving them, fine. What are your sources? What evidence do you have to support your claims?
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11-16-2012, 03:34 PM | #20 |
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{Bites tongue}
Promised self to stay out of political threads. Petraeus testified that he knew. Nothing concrete, but it sure looks bad.
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11-16-2012, 05:55 PM | #21 |
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I know what you mean. Can you say "Benghazigate"??
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11-16-2012, 07:31 PM | #22 |
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I heard a short clip from the leader of the torches and pitchforks gang, Senator John McCain, in which he said "that is the dumbest question I've ever heard" after being "asked" (setup) by some reporter-person who led him down the garden path ending with thousands of pages of classified material representing a national security risk, in which he said "four dead Americans". He said it about seven times in forty-five seconds. He's wound the hell up by this, by the loss of these four dead Americans.
Good on him. But he looks and sounds like a bit of a drama queen when he skips the classified briefing yesterday to hold yet another press conference on the issue. How's he gonna get the facts offered there? And what about the four, no, wait, one hundred and four, or more dead Americans in the wake of the storm a couple weeks ago? Why so outraged by some dead Americans and so indifferent to some other dead Americans? Is it because they were attached to our armed services, as he is? Well, then why not grieve and tear his hair about the four dead Americans, Army and Marine veterans killed in a collision with a train? It's because there's no political mud to be slung. They're all Americans. They're all dead. But he's focused on these because he thinks he can make his political opponent look bad by WHOOPING IT UP. Pathetic hypocrite.
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11-16-2012, 07:36 PM | #23 |
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Benghazigate will end up being less important than the White Water fiasco
of Ken Starr, but hopefully will be shorter and cost less Federal $ to complete. But then, Lindsey and John have little else to do this term, so they will grandstand each time there's a news camera in the proximity. |
11-16-2012, 08:01 PM | #24 |
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So do I understand this? There was a non-public, classified hearing, and we'll never know what happened in it, but now politicians are coming out and saying the testimony clearly supports their position?
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11-16-2012, 08:30 PM | #25 |
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That's what the Republican politicians are saying
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11-19-2012, 07:34 PM | #26 | |
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This CNN report seems to me to deflate all of the Republican criticism
of White House and Susan Rice regarding her "talking points" last Sept. CNN Pam Benson November 19th, 2012 Official: Changes to Benghazi talking points made by intel community Quote:
Last edited by Lamplighter; 11-19-2012 at 08:08 PM. |
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11-20-2012, 07:50 AM | #27 |
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The Republicans are just looking around for something they can use to appear strong after the painful election results. This seems to have the best odds for them, so they are running with it. It's a non issue, but they are pounding at it, hoping to get some traction.
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11-20-2012, 08:20 AM | #28 |
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McCain vehemently demanded that Susan Rice, US Ambassador to the United Nations,
apologize for her public statements from the "unclassified version" of the talking points. I wonder now if he will apologize ever to her ? Maybe he will just change direction and demand that Mike Rogers, Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, apologize for requesting the "unclassified version" from the CIA in the first place. Of course Lindsey Graham believes he is never wrong, so he could never apologize... enough. |
11-20-2012, 10:36 AM | #29 |
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It's all just such bullshit. If these politicians honestly believe that the military leaders are going to regurgitate every tidbit of information (real, speculative, or classified), they are delusional. Honestly, back the fuck off and quit making this shit political. Get back to fixing the economy and civil issues and let the military experts do their best to keep our servicemen safe.
Oh and if they were so concerned about security, maybe they should have approved the requests for additional funding for extra security before all this happened. But because they denied the requests, they need to just STFU and quit acting like children having a tantrum trying to divert attention from their fuckup. How many goddamn times has this sort of incident occurred? And yet, they're trying to make this one special? Fucking fuck off and go do something useful for a fucking change. I'm ashamed that these people are in charge and I'm embarrassed that they are representing my country to the world.
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11-20-2012, 10:51 AM | #30 | |
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No they don't. They know it takes time to find out what really happened, if ever. That's why the right wing blogs and pundits were spouting half truths and outright lies before the ashes were cold. Talking like this was a war zone battle scene where everything we got is in place. Wailing about the Stevens being dragged through the streets, when absolutely no proof exists. I wonder if they pissed on his body... no, wait, that's an American thing. It's the same as the original 9-11, why didn't they stop the second plane from hitting the WTC?
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