Election 2012

[Cyber Wolf]

Already getting talked about...

http://wtop.com/1211/3100461/Romney-...in-storms-wake

[piercehawkeye45]

Don't have time to look into it more right now since I think Huffington Post is pretty biased, but this is interesting:

The New York Times reported on Thursday that Senate Republicans applied pressure to the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service (CRS) in September, successfully persuading it to withdraw a report finding that lowering marginal tax rates for the wealthiest Americans had no effect on economic growth or job creation.

...

The report is extensive, but the reasoning behind its conclusion is fairly straightforward. The richest Americans are the least likely to spend extra money they get as a result of a tax cut, and are more likely to save it or invest it offshore. Those on the lower end of the economic spectrum, meanwhile, are the most likely to spend transfer payments they receive from the government.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2059156.html


Note that this assumes demand driven growth.

[Cyber Wolf]

Also reported by the NY Times

It still seems to be a very new story might be a bit before other news outlets pick it up if they do.

[Ibby]

All you brainwashed lib'ruls have it wrong, and the evil liberal media conspiracy to skew the polls is thoroughly debunked, gosh. Obviously.

[maineiac04631]

Originally Posted by Ibby

All you brainwashed lib'ruls have it wrong, and the evil liberal media conspiracy to skew the polls is thoroughly debunked, gosh. Obviously.

I do not buy that for a second.

Romney will not win New Mexico, they vote 2 to 1 democrat, their former republican governor Gary Johnson will be on the ballot as the libertarian party candidate and he was very popular there, he was re-elected unlike the other former republican governor who only served one term in Massachusetts.

Romney will not win in Ohio either, I live in the most republican county in Ohio and just put 100 Gary Johnson signs all over and if you came here you would think that the election was between Johnson and Romney, there are hardly any Obama signs here.

The GOP is in disarray, the way the Ron Paul people were treated in Tampa was deplorable and it is going to cost them big time. A year ago the sentiment was anyone but Romney, they were begging Chris Christie to run, they had one front runner after another, I still love you Herman Cain!

When I was young and stupid I was a republican, but after being royally disgusted by the first Bush I stopped misreading the problem and joined the libertarian party.

I only have two simple requests for our "Dear Leaders"

1. Be a good steward of our hard earned tax payers dollars. Spend my money as carefully as I have to

2. Stay the FUCK out of my personal life, I have a sterling character compared to you. (You = John Edwards and Arnold Schwarzenegger)

People get the government they deserve - deserve better!

[Ibby]

Originally Posted by maineiac04631

I do not buy that for a second.

yeah... neither does anybody else saner than Adak and Merc and UG. in other words, anybody sane.

[maineiac04631]

Originally Posted by Ibby

yeah... neither does anybody else saner than Adak and Merc and UG. in other words, anybody sane.

I can't wait until election night just to see the repugs cry when they lose and I hope I did something to straighten them out.

Maybe they will lay off the whole legitimate rape pregnancy abortion, gay bashing, drug warrior, chicken hawk nonsense. That and all the lies will cost them control of the senate.

[Ibby]

In more sensical news, The Young Turks (Current TV, beats watching Chris Matthews or Top Gear reruns) just did a segment on the bookies' odds on the election, which are just about in line with Nate Silver at fivethirtyeight at 3:1 for Obama.

[ZenGum]

You may be underestimating the effectiveness of electoral shennanigans. Remember 2000.

[Stormieweather]

Yeah Broward county, a predominately black, Democrat area, mysteriously lost 1000 votes the other day. Just poof'd.

The elections supervisor said it would be looked into, but short of comparing each electronic vote with each paper ballot, how the hell would they find it? I know a little about computers and hackers, and it would be a cakewalk to put a little backdoor program in there to allow access to play with the numbers. A little here, a little there, not enough to cause undue alarm, and you can do whatever....err...elect whomever you want.

[Adak]

I hadn't heard of Gary Johnson, but I wish he had run in the GOP primaries, with us. Would have been interesting!

Unfortunately, we have a two party system, so if you want a conservative, and you vote for Johnson, you're handing the election to Obama - because third party candidates never get any kind of a decent number of electoral votes.

The last 3rd party candidate that did well, was Ross Perot - who had a good platform - but his supporters handed the election to the democrat, on a silver platter.

Think twice about voting for a third party candidate, and look at the history of them, and their effect on candidates they are closest to in their platform, who are also in the race.

Don't hand the race to Obama, by voting for Johnson. Get Johnson to run as a Republican, perhaps for a Senate seat? (and President whenever he would like to run for that - but as a Republican, not a Libertarian).

I like the Libertarian platform, but we can't win elections with that party.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by Adak

I hadn't heard of Gary Johnson, but I wish he had run in the GOP primaries, with us. Would have been interesting!

Wow. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that a GOP shill doesn't know a Republican Party outcast.
Johnson announced his candidacy for President on April 21, 2011, as a Republican,[12] on a libertarian platform emphasizing the United States public debt and a balanced budget through a 43% reduction of all federal government spending, protection of civil liberties, an immediate end to the War in Afghanistan and his advocacy of the FairTax. On December 28, 2011, after being excluded from the majority of the Republican Party's presidential debates and failing to gain traction while campaigning for the New Hampshire primary, he withdrew his candidacy for the Republican nomination and announced that he would continue his presidential campaign as a candidate for the nomination of the Libertarian Party.[13] He won the Libertarian Party nomination on May 5, 2012. His vice-presidential running mate is Judge James P. Gray of California.

Unfortunately, we have a two party system, so if you want a conservative, and you vote for Johnson, you're handing the election to Obama - because third party candidates never get any kind of a decent number of electoral votes.

Now I'm the uninformed one, can you give me the chapter and verse of your precious constitution which says that?

The last 3rd party candidate that did well, was Ross Perot - who had a good platform - but his supporters handed the election to the democrat, on a silver platter.

There's that entitlement thinking again. The two major criminal enterprises do not have a right to anyone's vote.

Think twice about voting for a third party candidate, and look at the history of them, and their effect on candidates they are closest to in their platform, who are also in the race.

We've heard this tale before. Vote for a war-mongering, religious nutter, crony capitalist when you want limited government. That makes perfect sense.

Don't hand the race to Obama, by voting for Johnson. Get Johnson to run as a Republican, perhaps for a Senate seat? (and President whenever he would like to run for that - but as a Republican, not a Libertarian).

I like the Libertarian platform, but we can't win elections with that party.

Once more a little bit louder. You're forgetting that the GOP is run by war mongers, religious nuts, and crony capitalists, they don't want libertarians. Will we ever find out how much money Romney made on the Delphi automotive bailout scamming the taxpayers and workers alike? Two criminal organizations but the Republicans seem to profit more from the schemes.

[maineiac04631]

Originally Posted by Adak

Unfortunately, we have a two party system.

Can you cite any constitutional amendment or any legislation to back this up?

The GOP deserves to lose and I hope they learn some hard lessons, that way after 4 more years of Obama and not having to run against an incumbent, that they nominate a better candidate. If the GOP nominates another whack job from a weird religious cult like Rick Santorum, you will get Nancy Pelosi in the White House.

Right now Richard Mourdock is down 11 points in a very red state because of his "pregnancy by rape is god's will" BS.

This is the "social conservative" crap that drives the younger people away from the GOP in droves and it's killing the party.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by maineiac04631

Can you cite any constitutional amendment or any legislation to back this up?

Of course not, none exists, but I believe he was addressing the reality that the two parties have locked up sufficient control to squash a third party run for anything but a local post.

I agree with this reality and think it will continue as long as people are fat, dumb, and happy. Christ, look at the turnouts on election days, especially at mid-terms. People that won't be bothered voting are hardy engaged in shaping the selection.

Maybe, just maybe, if we can get people fired up enough to get involved on a local level, with shit that they can actually see affects them directly, they'd be more inspired to pay attention at higher levels. It might dispel the feeling of helplessness, and their vote is meaningless.

[Adak]

Originally Posted by maineiac04631

Can you cite any constitutional amendment or any legislation to back this up?

Oh, you can have more than two political parties, (and we do), but the way our gov't is set up by the Constitution, only two parties are ever likely to dominate any election.

It's like cars - nothing says they have to have 4 wheels, but the function of them makes 4 wheels by far the most popular choice. There have been 3 axle 6 wheel cars, and 3 wheel cars, but they never became popular.

The GOP deserves to lose and I hope they learn some hard lessons, that way after 4 more years of Obama and not having to run against an incumbent, that they nominate a better candidate. If the GOP nominates another whack job from a weird religious cult like Rick Santorum, you will get Nancy Pelosi in the White House.

Santorum or Pelosi in the White House?

Right now Richard Mourdock is down 11 points in a very red state because of his "pregnancy by rape is god's will" BS.

Richard is a whack job, and the party asked him to quit the race, but he wouldn't. When you open your mouth and stuff your whole leg down your throat, you need to get out of politics, clearly. IMO, Richard is toast in politics.

This is the "social conservative" crap that drives the younger people away from the GOP in droves and it's killing the party.

Yes, I agree. The Republicans wanted a platform and a candidate more conservative than last time. At the same time, the whack jobs have to be cut from the herd - they're a mess, and sickening.