What would Martin Niemoller think about Arizona?

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Uh-oh. That's gonna incur some costs. Better border security or more spending/debt/taxes? Better border security or more spending/debt/taxes? Better border security or more spending/debt/taxes? Is your head about to explode?

Mushy brains are a Mexican delicacy.

As you can probably imagine, brains tend to have a texture that likens to mush, but they really don’t taste bad at all. They’re actually almost flavorless, so most of the taste comes from the sauce in which the brains are prepared.
http://blog.ratestogo.com/disgusting...ies-of-mexico/

But "real" Americans prefer rocky mountain oysters.

[Shawnee123]

If they really wanted to multi-task and save money, they could do both. Do you have ANY idea how many ferners are sneaking over here disguised as oil spills?

[classicman]

I think the issue is more than just crime statistics. The costs in other areas is also choking the system. Prisons, healthcare, education...



There is also a piece on it here from
CBS News

Originally Posted by classicman

I think the issue is more than just crime statistics. The costs in other areas is also choking the system. Prisons, healthcare, education...



There is also a piece on it here from
CBS News

Testimony?

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Testimony is not a factual statistic, sorry fail again Demoncratic Shrill....

To further clarify, it is my understanding that governnment data is not accceptable to either of you as well, since you view such data as "propoganda, biased or unreliable"....unless, of course, that government data supports your position, in which case it is acceptable.

I didnt expect you to acknowledge that many of the proponents of the AZ law, including the governor, have grossly misrepresented the crime factor (unless you dont accept FBI and AZ stats because it is govt data).

Originally Posted by classicman

Lets review. The feds didn't uphold their responsibilities in AZ and elsewhere. AZ asked them repeatedly to do so. AZ was ignored repeatedly....the Fed statutes that the Feds aren't enforcing. Fed has egg on face and is embarrassed. Feds take action based upon what AZ was asking for initially.

Sure...lets review.

You refuse to accept or acknowledge that funding for border security this year is significantly higher than the last Bush/Republican Congress appropriations and not something that Obama did in reaction to the AZ law:

In 2007, discretionary spending on border security was $6.3 billion. As Pence noted, that was the last year of full Republican control. After that, while George W. Bush remained in the presidency, Congress was controlled by Democrats. But discretionary spending on border security continued to rise year after year. It went to $7.9 billion in 2008; to $9.8 billion in 2009; and to $10.1 billion in fiscal year 2010. President Barack Obama's proposed 2011 budget calls for a slight decrease in discretionary spending on border security, but even at the proposed level of $9.8 billion, that's a 55 percent increase between 2007 and 2011.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...gal-immigrati/

But they havent responded to AZ's concerns?

Or that the number of deportations was higher last year than any previous year:

Is this not a demonstration of a response to AZ's concerns?

So, now its the cost issue...which by most independent studies is grossly overstated.

Particularly when you factor in the taxes paid by illegal immigrants -- according to the Social Security Administration, illegal immigrants pay $billions in FICA taxes and will never collect -- and many pay income taxes (in order to have a paper trail to get home loans) and all of them pay state/local sales taxes.

Illegal immigrants are paying taxes to Uncle Sam, experts agree. Just how much they pay is hard to determine because the federal government doesn't fully tally it. But the latest figures available indicate it will amount to billions of dollars in federal income, Social Security and Medicare taxes this year. One rough estimate puts the amount of Social Security taxes alone at around $9 billion per year.

The Social Security Administration estimates that about three-quarters of illegal workers pay taxes that contribute to the overall solvency of Social Security and Medicare.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/...ntstaxes_N.htm

And then there is the $billions in additional revenue that would be generated by providing a path to citizenship....not amnesty, as it is falsely characterized, but a process, including paying fines and taxes, waiting periods, etc.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by lookout123

I haven't gone through that line by line but that looks like it is looking at the state as a whole rather than border counties/cities versus those further from the border. Maybe your data still supports what you are saying, but I don't know that it necessarily does.

One of the things that has been talked about quite a bit down here is that the crime rate in the metro areas has gone down significantly at the same time as more and more of my fellow arizonans are becoming fulltime firearm carriers. The debate has been whether that is cause/effect or just coincidental. At the same time we've heard from the sherriffs in border counties that they are significantly more active now.

I don't have any hard data for that, I was just curious if you did since you seemed so sure in your premise.

Shouldn't they enforce existing laws before they enact new regulation?

Originally Posted by classicman

Not at all - WTF are you talking about?

You espouse spending additional money to stop illegal immigration, yet you condemn spending money. You can't have it both ways. Shel and Shaw understood...

Originally Posted by classicman

Does it just come naturally or do you have to try?

Many things come naturally for me, like understanding and complex reasoning. Other things I try to do, like getting you to understand elementary concepts. Are we done being snide?

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Redux

Sure...lets review.
You refuse to accept or acknowledge that funding for border enforcement this year is significantly higher than the last Bush/Republican Congress appropriations and not something that Obama did in reaction to the AZ law:

How much of that help went to AZ? Your statistics are for the entire US not AZ specifically.

So, now its the cost issue...which by most independent studies is grossly overstated.

It isn't nor has it ever been any ONE issue.

factor in the taxes paid by illegal immigrants
additional revenue that would be generated by providing a path to citizenship....

Excellent! And let us now relate that to the costs associated with these criminals.. .. .. I'll wait.

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Shouldn't they enforce existing laws before they enact new regulation?

Yup - they asked and were refused for years.

You espouse spending additional money to stop illegal immigration, yet you condemn spending money. You can't have it both ways. Shel and Shaw understood...

lol Shel and shaw? Are you serious?
I condemn wasteful spending - always have and will. The rest is yet another figment of your overactive imagination.

Are we done being snide?

Apparently not - When you act like an a-hole, you can count on me to let you know - every time?

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by classicman

~snip~(bold mine)

lol Shel and shaw? Are you serious?
I condemn wasteful spending - always have and will. The rest is yet another figment of your overactive imagination.

Apparently not - When you act like an a-hole, you can count on me to let you know - every time?

Fuck you and your overblown sense of yourself.

Shel, did you get that? We're laughable. We must be stupid. Did you know that? I didn't.

Jesus, class, I knew you were an ass but I didn't think you thought you were better than everyone else.

Now excuse me while I go pick my nose and grunt and fling poo at my cow orkers. You interrupted that process by uttering my name.

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

Fuck you and your overblown sense of yourself.

Shel, did you get that? We're laughable. We must be stupid. Did you know that? I didn't.

Jesus, class, I knew you were an ass but I didn't think you thought you were better than everyone else.

Now excuse me while I go pick my nose and grunt and fling poo at my cow orkers. You interrupted that process by uttering my name.

Who or what is laughable?

Every time I read one of classic's response posts that deny or twist or ignore facts that challenge his opinion...I laugh.

Now this is laughable:

You have a perspective that is very different than mine. Thats one of the things I love about interacting here. The diversity.

Classic...your "interactions" consistently demonstrate utter contempt for any posts that challenge yours....and you love the diversity?

You and Merc can carry on now. You two deserve each other.

ps....keep sending Merc those links of yours....you will have a receptive audience who wont challenge you at all.

[Shawnee123]

Quit muddying the waters with facts, will you? Hmmmph.

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

Quit muddying the waters with facts, will you? Hmmmph.

Like the muddy Rio Grande River?

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

Quit muddying the waters with facts, will you? Hmmmph.

Originally Posted by Redux

Like the muddy Rio Grande River?

They're not wet backs, they're mud backs!

[classicman]

I love how some draw conclusions based upon their names being mentioned. your boy spexxie brought you up - not me.
I merely referred to the fact that you and he agreed with his stance. That has been blatantly obvious.

Your intelligence or lack thereof (your choice) was never part of the discussion.
Nor did I ever say that I was "better than everyone else" as you said.

Sorry to interrupt your nosepicking/pooflinging - Have a blessed day.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

...You espouse spending additional money to stop illegal immigration, yet you condemn spending money. You can't have it both ways. Shel and Shaw understood...

Originally Posted by classicman

...lol Shel and shaw? Are you serious?
...

Originally Posted by classicman

...
I merely referred to the fact that you and he agreed with his stance. ...

Now you can't tell the difference between understood and agreed.

[Shawnee123]

Have fun stormin' the castle!