Berkeley City Council Doing Its Anti-Democracy Bit

[Sundae]

Originally Posted by Radar

Communist and/or socialist? Probably 80% or more.

Cite?!

[tw]

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

Cite?!

You are asking the wrong person for citation. TheMercenary has made rediculous claims that require citation. Although I don't agree with some of Radar's conclusions, at least he is willing to put forth supporting facts.

A more accurate question for Radar would better define a boundary between socialism and communism. At what point does a socialist nation differ from a communist? For that matter, the US also could be called a socialist nation. All depends upon where boundary numbers get applied.

France is considered by many to be a socialist nation. The French (what - five years ago?) rose to the top of the list - the world's most productive nation. Others who have been there include Norway. Are they socialist? Some say so.

So where is this numeric definition that defines a difference between a socialist and a communist nation? And where is this citation from TheMercenary for any of his posts? Oh. TheMercenary can post something without citations? Well, Sundae Girl, why the double standard?

[Radar]

Originally Posted by tw

You are asking the wrong person for citation. TheMercenary has made rediculous claims that require citation. Although I don't agree with some of Radar's conclusions, at least he is willing to put forth supporting facts.

A more accurate question for Radar would better define a boundary between socialism and communism. At what point does a socialist nation differ from a communist? For that matter, the US also could be called a socialist nation. All depends upon where boundary numbers get applied.

France is considered by many to be a socialist nation. The French (what - five years ago?) rose to the top of the list - the world's most productive nation. Others who have been there include Norway. Are they socialist? Some say so.

So where is this numeric definition that defines a difference between a socialist and a communist nation? And where is this citation from TheMercenary for any of his posts? Oh. TheMercenary can post something without citations? Well, Sundae Girl, why the double standard?

Socialism and Communism are just different spots on the same scale. The more a nation embraces socialism, the worse off they will be. European socialist nations like England, France & Germany support socialism in some form, and they suffer in those areas. Germany is still having a lot of trouble because of their socialism and some would claim they are successful. Some people actually claim Sweden is a successful nation. I don't call any nation where the government keeps over half of what you earn to be a successful one.

I consider America to be a partly socialist nation in that it has government programs that steal from those who work and create wealth, the government keeps a huge portion of it, and then gives what's left to those who are too lazy, inept, or incapable of earning their own way. It's false charity and it does more harm than good.

When a nation openly nationalizes the means of production you're talking about communism or full socialism.

[Sundae]

Originally Posted by Radar

I consider America to be a partly socialist nation in that it has government programs that steal from those who work and create wealth, the government keeps a huge portion of it, and then gives what's left to those who are too lazy, inept, or incapable of earning their own way. It's false charity and it does more harm than good.

I don't think I'll be seriously pursuing the claim that most 3rd world countries are socialist/ communist. We have a different understanding of the words.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by tw

You are asking the wrong person for citation. TheMercenary has made rediculous claims that require citation. Although I don't agree with some of Radar's conclusions, at least he is willing to put forth supporting facts.

A more accurate question for Radar would better define a boundary between socialism and communism. At what point does a socialist nation differ from a communist? For that matter, the US also could be called a socialist nation. All depends upon where boundary numbers get applied.

France is considered by many to be a socialist nation. The French (what - five years ago?) rose to the top of the list - the world's most productive nation. Others who have been there include Norway. Are they socialist? Some say so.

So where is this numeric definition that defines a difference between a socialist and a communist nation? And where is this citation from TheMercenary for any of his posts? Oh. TheMercenary can post something without citations? Well, Sundae Girl, why the double standard?

Yea, you and cite your ramblings all the time. Even when they are incorrect. Carry on.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by tw

You are asking the wrong person for citation. TheMercenary has made rediculous claims that require citation. Although I don't agree with some of Radar's conclusions, at least he is willing to put forth supporting facts.

A more accurate question for Radar would better define a boundary between socialism and communism. At what point does a socialist nation differ from a communist? For that matter, the US also could be called a socialist nation. All depends upon where boundary numbers get applied.

France is considered by many to be a socialist nation. The French (what - five years ago?) rose to the top of the list - the world's most productive nation. Others who have been there include Norway. Are they socialist? Some say so.

So where is this numeric definition that defines a difference between a socialist and a communist nation? And where is this citation from TheMercenary for any of his posts? Oh. TheMercenary can post something without citations? Well, Sundae Girl, why the double standard?

Ok big boy which of these are socialist which are communist, which are other? Radar is an idiot because he stated that 80% of the third world is either communist or socialist. That is false.

This article lists forms of government and political systems, according to a series of different ways of categorising them. The systems listed are of course not mutually exclusive, and often have overlapping definitions (for example autocracy, authoritarianism, despotism, totalitarianism, monarchism and tyranny).


Alphabetical list with hierarchy
The following list groups major political systems (recognized by political science) in alphabetical order. The various subtype political systems are listed below the main system of government.

Anarchism
Anarcho-communism
Anarcho-capitalism
Anarcho-primitivism
Anarcho-socialism
Anarcho-syndicalism
Eco-anarchism
Isocracy
Mobocracy
Tribalism
Authoritarianism (Autocracy or Oligarchy)
Absolutism
Enlightened absolutism
Aristocracy
Communist state
Corporatism
Despotism
Diarchy
Dictatorship
Military dictatorship
Benevolent dictatorship
Gerontocracy
Hagiarchy
Kakistocracy
Kleptocracy
Matriarchy
Meritocracy
Monarchy
Absolute monarchy
Constitutional monarchy
Feudalism
Despotate
Duchy
Grand Duchy
Elective monarchy
Emirate
Hereditary monarchy
Popular monarchy
Principality
New Monarchs
Self-proclaimed monarchy
Viceroyalty
Patriarchy
Patrimonalism
Plutocracy
Timocracy
Police state
Corporate police state
Puppet state
Robocracy (fictional)
Theocracy
Caliphate
Halachic state
Holy See
Islamic republic
Sultanate
Totalitarianism
Fascism
Tyranny
Technocracy (bureaucratic)
Democracy
Deliberative democracy
Democratic republic
Democratic socialism
Direct democracy
Participatory democracy
Representative democracy
Parliamentary system
Westminster system
Consensus government
Presidential system (Congressional system)
Semi-presidential system
Republicanism (Republic)
Presidential republic
Parliamentary republic
Constitutional republic
Totalitarian democracy

By approach to regional autonomy
This list focuses on differing approaches that political systems take to the distribution of sovereignty, and the autonomy of regions within the state.

Sovereignty located exclusively at the centre
Empire
Unitary state
Sovereignty located at the centre and in peripheral areas
Federation and Federal republic

By political franchise
This list shows a division based on differences in political franchise (suffrage).

anarchy - rule by no one
autocracy - rule by one
oligarchy - rule by minority
republic - rule by law
democracy - rule by majority
socialism - rule by all

According to Weber's tripartite classification of authority
Max Weber in his tripartite classification of authority distinguished three ideal types of political leadership, domination and authority:

charismatic domination (familial and religious)
traditional domination (patriarchs, patrimonalism, feudalism)
legal domination (modern law and state, bureaucracy)

[DanaC]

That's a no win sundae. Radar will point to a bunch of regimes that were at one time rebels with the word 'unite' or 'people' in their name and suggest they are communist.

[DanaC]

Contrary to what you may believe tw, Sundae isn't here as the cite police. It's not double standards, it's just an organically evolving thread in which something somebody said sparked her interest.

[Radar]

Cite? You mean other than Indonesia, North Korea, Cuba, Vietnam, Cambodia, Haiti, Afghanistan, Eastern bloc nations (Ukraine, Yugoslavia, Albania, Romania, etc. ) Venezuela, nearly every African nation, etc.?

[TheMercenary]

Here is a better link.

Some have elements of many forms of government, including socialist and or communist ideology. Few are one or the other.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._of_government

[Undertoad]

One can scour your posts for any interface with other lands, languages, or cultures, and come up with -- zero.

Radar has a wife of a different land, language and culture, and a child by that wife.

He's posted about her often for many years.

That's your level of reading comprehension when you "scour". You should hear yourself after you "skim".

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Radar has a wife of a different land, language and culture, and a child by that wife.

He's posted about her often for many years.

That's your level of reading comprehension when you "scour". You should hear yourself after you "skim".

That explains everything, she is probably an illegal alien living here an breaking our laws. Figures. Makes perfect sense.

[dar512]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

That explains everything, she is probably an illegal alien living here an breaking our laws. Figures. Makes perfect sense.

Gimme a break. I don't care for Radar either. But fair's fair. His efforts to jump through many many legal hoops to get her into the country are recounted here in a bunch of threads.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by dar512

Gimme a break. I don't care for Radar either. But fair's fair. His efforts to jump through many many legal hoops to get her into the country are recounted here in a bunch of threads.

I could give a crap about his personal efforts to circumvent our laws. I would love to see ICE find a way to jump through hoops to send her ass back home.

[lookout123]

Uh, dude? That's pretty fucked up. I'm a big proponent for fixing the system to stop the illegal immigration problem. Radar may be fucked on a lot of his ideas, but you don't deport his legal immigrant wife just because of his ideas. He actually followed the laws IIRC. That's what we want.