The "Plane on a Treadmill" Question

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by lookout123

What TW Meantto say

It's George Jr's fault...mental midget....seven seconds... top management... limbaugh disciples... no WMD...

Ya forgot MBAs that ordered that stupid treadmill.

[skysidhe]

Maggie, The original question dosn't say the wind speed exceeds the stall speed.

[lumberjim]

i read the question....thought about it..decided that the rotation of the wheels nullified the movement of the treadmill..then i decided to wait to see what Happy Monkey would say, and knew i was right when he agreed.


the only way this scenario works out to no forward movement, and thence no lift is if the wheels are locked, and fastened tight to the surface.

as happy monkey said. it's a trick question

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

That is actually good to hear. I always felt like she lost some of her personality through the transition. Like Scott would push back, but Lisa wouldn't. I liked that push back sometimes.

Oh, Lisa's still the same person, no question about it. I think it's natural to lose some assertiveness during transition--especially male to female--because that power is being consumed elsewhere. But then begins the process of integrating core motivations with a new set of social expectations and norms. The strategy is largely unchanged, but often the tactics are different. Learning the new tactics isn't instantaneous.

One of the cruelest things that happens to a transitioning transsexual is the important people in your life who find it easier to cope with your transition by behaving as if the person they knew is now dead; taken over zombie fashion by some other entity. In the cases I know, t'aint so.

[lumberjim]

you said taint

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by lumberjim

you said taint

NOW the plane/treadmill debate is OVER!

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by skysidhe

Maggie, The original question dosn't say the wind speed exceeds the stall speed.

No, it doesn't. But I'm trying to shed light on the fact that lift is a function only of airspeed (and angle of attack). Groundspeed is irrelevant, and airspeed and groundspeed are two different things.

The other thing that some folks are missing is that airspeed is created by thrust...and that the operation of thrust has nothing to do with the ground or how the airplane is supported before takeoff (wheels, treadmills, skis, skids, floats, etc.) at all.

If thrust had anything to do with the ground, it wouldn't work while flying. Duh.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by lumberjim

you said taint

"taint" != "t'aint", just as "wont" != "won't"

[hideouse]

Originally Posted by skysidhe

The original question says the treadmill matches the planes speed. It cancels out. The plane isn't moving forward to create airflow over and under the wings so it isn't going to fly.

it doesn't matter that the treadmill matches the planes speed. The wheels aren't driving the plane. The treadmill will only affect the rotation of the wheels, which will only affect the movement of the plane if the brakes are applied and the surface of the treadmills won't allow a skid. In which case the tires will eventually blow and the plane will skid on it's rims.

The treadmill can make the wheels be still by matching the forward movement of the plane. it can make the wheels roll backward while the plane moves forward by moving faster than the speed of the plane. it can make the wheels move forward by moving slower than the speed of the plane. But until the plane becomes a car with a drive shaft mechanicallly linked to the engines the movement of the wheels will have no effect on the movement of the plane.

[skysidhe]

I guess I am just too stupid to get it then. Thanks hideouse. You tried.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by skysidhe

I guess I am just too stupid to get it then. Thanks hideouse. You tried.

It's very counterintuitive if the only wheeled vehicles you've ever been in moved by applying power to the wheels. But imagine an airboat in a swift current...the propellor operates on the air, not on the water.

Someday come along with me for a ride in the Cardinal...feeling it happen makes a difference.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

I used to be friends with this guy, Scott. He was always right, no matter what, and if it looked like he was wrong he'd press the issue until he was right, in some sense. Any sense.
...

Is his name now MaggieL?:p

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Is his name now MaggieL?:p

Nope. Read your Cellar history.

Eppur si muove.

[hideouse]

Originally Posted by skysidhe

I guess I am just too stupid to get it then. Thanks hideouse. You tried.

You are a good sport Sky.

[Flint]

Originally Posted by hideouse

it doesn't matter that the treadmill matches the planes speed. The wheels aren't driving the plane.

The question states that the treadmill matches the plane's speed. Wheels be damned. If you believe the question, you believe the treadmill matches the plane's speed, regardless of what the wheels are doing. The question is: what is the plane's speed relative to? And this information is not provided. It's only a trick question in the sense that it tricks you into thinking there is any determinable answer. As it is stated, there isn't.