Gay Marriage

[slang]

Originally posted by sycamore
The Native Americans, who certainly got their asses whupped (minus Custer and a few other battles)...or Whites, who missed a golden opportunity to learn about new and different cultures?

But we both understand they werent the least bit interested in learning about new cultures then. That may be different now.

The evolution of the two cultures has not ended. Before it's over, NAs may very well beat the (white) man at his own game.....with the applause of white men.

How many people would like to see the SC uphold the treaty with the NAs regarding taxes and the sale of cigarettes? I would. Did the US gov't make the treaty stating that they wouldnt be liable to collect and pay taxes of the US gov't (Fed, state, local)? If I'm not mistaken, they did. Will they honor it? People of all colors will be watching as they screw the NAs again by not doing so.

Please understand I have empathy for the NAs. I think it's really funny though, that the US gov't stacks the deck against them even while it supposedly is a friendlier more thoughtful gov't now.

[rant] If they made the treaty, they should just fuck off and stop hassling them over the cigarette taxes lost, that were not crucial to the (white) man's society at the time of the signing of the legal agreement[/rant]

signed

EvilWhiteMale

[JeepNGeorge]

Well until we all are viewed as equal, consider me a gay indian. I'm going to marry my father so that when he leaves this world he can bestow to me the smoke shoppe, free indian house, and land without me having to pay those pesky estate taxes.

Wait my fathers already passed.

I'm still gay, but I'm now female and I'm going to marry my mom.

[lumberjim]

Originally posted by sycamore


...who was the real loser in the end? The Native Americans, who certainly got their asses whupped (minus Custer and a few other battles)...or Whites, who missed a golden opportunity to learn about new and different cultures?

The Native americans clearly lost. clearly.

We did learn about their new and different culture, decided that they were savages, and as with most good christian societies, we had the responsibility under GOD to convert them, get them drunk, and pigeon hole them.

[Whit]

      Yeah, the white US Gov. made the deals and signed the treaty giving NA's limited sovereignty over themselves, which in turn gives them the right to open casino's. We're still bound by those treaties. That's life. Whether it was a mistake or not is redundant. The deal is done. Gay marriage and homosexuality in general is an increasingly open issue.

      On the subject of reparations, my ancestry goes back to an interesting case. It seems my last name (White) originated with a half-NA half-white guy that was the illegitimate son of a white man and his Indian slave woman. I tried to offer to pay myself for the injustices my ancestor committed but I felt that since I personally had nothing to do with them it wouldn't be right to take payment for them. Especially since I haven't had that type of injustice committed against me personally. In the end I just shook my hand and both sides agreed to never be part of anything like my ancestor had.

[Whit]

      I know this is a few pages back, but I wanted to comment and respond. That's the joy of message boards, you can do that.

From Preacherswife2u:
The Bible speaks of the depravity of man... It's just a matter of time. The world will become more and more sinister. It all plays out in revelation.

      Can you elaborate? A couple of millennia ago Alexander the Great was considered kind when he wiped out (Thebes I think?), killed the men and enslaved the women and children. We had slavery in this country just a couple of centuries back. Death by hanging was choice because it could take awhile, then somebody figured out the 13 knot method of tying it. Electrocution was picked up because it was thought to be excruciating. My point is that the world seems to be better overall. So why is it more sinister?

[preacherswife2u]

Originally posted by Whit
      I know this is a few pages back, but I wanted to comment and respond. That's the joy of message boards, you can do that.
      Can you elaborate? A couple of millennia ago Alexander the Great was considered kind when he wiped out (Thebes I think?), killed the men and enslaved the women and children. We had slavery in this country just a couple of centuries back. Death by hanging was choice because it could take awhile, then somebody figured out the 13 knot method of tying it. Electrocution was picked up because it was thought to be excruciating. My point is that the world seems to be better overall. So why is it more sinister?

I am speaking of the depravity of the heart of individuals. So many people desire to live their lives without any regard to God or His purpose for them. They make their own rules...their own morality...

There is no right or wrong. No absolutes. Right has become "what is right for me...wrong is what is wrong for me". Many say that "truth" is merely what you believe to be true.

However, it is my belief that there is a moral right and wrong, and it is unchanging because it has it's origin in God and He is unchanging.

I know that society likes to modify and change and rename whatever does not suit them, and for the most part...there is nothing that can be done to change that. As long as evil exists in this world through the presence of satan, man will continue to spiral downward...not collectively, but individually. Not all, but definitely those who choose to look to their own hearts and desires to form their specially tailored belief system.

This is a dark world that we live in, IMO. Years ago, people did not lock their doors. Children walked to school without fear of abduction, etc. Role models were not scantily clad teenagers.

Our methods may have changed, but not necessarily our motive. Selfishness, greed, fame, fortune, etc. This is what drives most people. As long as we are a people who primarily want only to serve ourselves and advance our own agenda, we will continue to fall short of the mark. (IMO, based on my christian beliefs)

[JeepNGeorge]

Originally posted by Whit
      Yeah, the white US Gov. made the deals and signed the treaty giving NA's limited sovereignty over themselves, which in turn gives them the right to open casino's. We're still bound by those treaties. That's life. Whether it was a mistake or not is redundant. The deal is done. Gay marriage and homosexuality in general is an increasingly open issue.

Yes we did.

We also assumed that marriage would be between a man and a woman.

Should we have signed a treaty or made a law saying only man and woman could marry? Then would we have been right?

How is saying indians (oh I'm sorry native americans, I'm from oklahoma home of indian gaming not NA gaming) are going to be treated special different than saying man and woman married are going to be treated special? You call one reparations and the other discrimination, yet they both are clear examples of discrimination (limited membership if you will) to me.

I say if we want equal rights for everybody lets give EVERYBODY equal rights.

But instead we pick and choose who to be included into what rights. If we keep doing that this battle will never end.

Only if the government stops discrimination against *ALL* people by limiting benefits to people that meet a certain criteria will I support gay marriage.

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by JeepNGeorge
Only if the government stops discrimination against *ALL* people by limiting benefits to people that meet a certain criteria will I support gay marriage.

And what criteria would that be?

[slang]

Originally posted by Whit
..... It seems my last name (White).......

So....your name is Whit White? Maybe even....Whit U. White?

Next you'll be telling us you arent really from the hills.

[elSicomoro]

I live on a hill, if that helps.

[preacherswife2u]

I'm sorry this reply comes so late...Thanksgiving and all, ya know.

Originally posted by Happy Monkey
Why? Nobody is trying to force Christians to marry gay. It is against strict Catholic doctrine to eat meat on Fridays. Would it be OK, if the Catholics gained control of the government, for them to forbid the sale or consumption of meat on Fridays? Or for Jews or Muslims to forbid the sale of pork altogether? Or for scientologists to ban the psychiatric profession? You have to realize that not everyone has the same beliefs.

True...we do not all have the same beliefs. Everyone has a right to their own belief/opinion, etc. God has given us all free will, the right to choose whatever path we would like to take. Does He have a plan for what that path should be? I believe so.

If it were against the law to eat meat on Fridays, then as a christian, I would abide by that law because it does not contradict any law that God has for me. Might I want to eat meat on Friday...maybe, but I would not. The same goes for the pork law and the psychiatry law. The Bible teaches that we are under the authority of the government, and unless the government makes a law that contradicts Biblical teaching, I am to uphold that law. That is what I believe. That is what I teach my children.

That's the difference. If someone was trying to prevent you from practicing your religion, you would have an issue. But instead someone is trying to give people more rights - people who do not share your beliefs. Why should your religious beliefs trump theirs?

I think you are missing my point. It is probably my fault...it is always late when I am on the computer. If it were against the law to worship God, I would worship Him anyway. That would be a law that would contradict scripture.

If there was a law that said I must bow down every day and worship a fish stick, I would not...no matter what the consequences. That would definitely be a law that would contradict scripture...and would also be just plain silly.

I do not understand why it is so hard to see why christians would not support or be in favor of anything that is considered a sin against God. I am all for people having rights. God is all for people having choices and rights. One of my rights is to vote and try to put people in office that will uphold my beliefs. Do you think otherwise? Is that not a right that you feel that you have also?

[Whit]

From Preacherswife2u:
I am speaking of the depravity of the heart of individuals. So many people desire to live their lives without any regard to God or His purpose for them. They make their own rules...their own morality...

      Um, you know, you basicaly just said that if we're not christian than we are sinister... Was this intentional? I'm just curious.

From Preacherswife2u:
This is a dark world that we live in, IMO. Years ago, people did not lock their doors. Children walked to school without fear of abduction, etc. Role models were not scantily clad teenagers.

      People were also robbed. So they started locking their doors. Kids were abducted, so people became more careful. Scantily clad teenagers were always ogled. So, we are worse as a people because we are more honest about the world around us? What???

From Preacherswife2u:
it's origin in God and He is unchanging.

      Not to be a jackass here, but have you read both testments? How 'bout the story of Jonah? He seems to change whenever he feels like it.

[God]

I think I really screwed up by allowing some key human inventions. Like the telephone, the internet and the Segway.

As humanity is able to communicate more easily, they compare notes on me.

This is where a substantial part of the problem is, I wasnt consistent with everyone. Now everyone is confused.

[JeepNGeorge]

Originally posted by sycamore


And what criteria would that be?

Any and all criteria based benefites should be abolished. Until then one group or another will come along and say I want to be included as well.

I guess I'm still bitter about not being able to attend the all catholic girls school.

[God]

Originally posted by JeepNGeorge
I guess I'm still bitter about not being able to attend the all catholic girls school.

I might be able to work you a small miracle.

Have you said your prayers lately?