Commonly mispronounced words

[monster]

Yeeeees. OK then, to spell it out it has one short and one long syllable which one could describe as 1.5 if one were being silly. And pronounciations vary with accent, particularly when those accents cross oceans.

What do you mean by real vowels? If you mean that two vowels together count as one, then I'd agree it's a good indicator. Which would give "nuclear" two syllables. And "clear" one....... Those in favor of "Squirrel" having one vowel should take note

[Perry Winkle]

Originally Posted by monster

Yeeeees. OK then, to spell it out it has one short and one long syllable which one could describe as 1.5 if one were being silly. And pronounciations vary with accent, particularly when those accents cross oceans.

What do you mean by real vowels? If you mean that two vowels together count as one, then I'd agree it's a good indicator. Which would give "nuclear" two syllables. And "clear" one....... Those in favor of "Squirrel" having one vowel should take note

The length of syllables is independent from the number of syllables.

Yes, pronunciations vary by accent, even by individual (cf. this).

By real vowel I mean a vowel that is in the RP English phonemic inventory (what else would make sense since we can't hear each-other on the intarwebs?). Two vowels together count as one if they're a dipthong, tripthong, or denote vowel length. I can see why you might think the [ea] in "nuclear" is the dipthong /ea/ and thus a single vowel, but it isn't. The [ea] in "nuclear" isn't the same as the [ea] in near, and clear. In words like near and clear the [ea] is the dipthong /ea/. However, in the case of "nuclear" the [ea] is two separate phonemes.

I've never heard the "clear" part of "nuclear" pronounced the same as the word "clear". So, if you have the means, post some samples of your pronunciation of some words with [ea] in similar environments. (Make sure to pronounce them as you would in conversation. Also, try to them in a sentence. Don't try to pronounce things slower/faster, extra clearly, or with special diction. That distorts what is produced and heard.)

Squirrel is really tricky. I'm not touching it with a ten-foot pole.

I am not a phonologist, I just play one on TV.

Originally Posted by grant

The length of syllables is independent from the number of syllables.

Yes, pronunciations vary by accent, even by individual (cf. this).

By real vowel I mean a vowel that is in the RP English phonemic inventory (what else would make sense since we can't hear each-other on the intarwebs?). Two vowels together count as one if they're a dipthong, tripthong, or denote vowel length. I can see why you might think the [ea] in "nuclear" is the dipthong /ea/ and thus a single vowel, but it isn't. The [ea] in "nuclear" isn't the same as the [ea] in near, and clear. In words like near and clear the [ea] is the dipthong /ea/. However, in the case of "nuclear" the [ea] is two separate phonemes.

I've never heard the "clear" part of "nuclear" pronounced the same as the word "clear". So, if you have the means, post some samples of your pronunciation of some words with [ea] in similar environments. (Make sure to pronounce them as you would in conversation. Also, try to them in a sentence. Don't try to pronounce things slower/faster, extra clearly, or with special diction. That distorts what is produced and heard.)

Squirrel is really tricky. I'm not touching it with a ten-foot pole.

I am not a phonologist, I just play one on TV.

Kinda' crushin' on you right now.

[monster]

Ah well, when you go making exceptions......

No way, no how am I recording my voice saying anything, I sound like a transatlantic munchkin wearing a too-tight corset. But I say Nyew-clear. Or I used to. I tend to use the American "n" sound these days for words like news and tuna and nuclear. And my speech is slower, hence the 1.5 syllables joke. Half the time I can't remember how I say things any more. It's a tough life being an expat with a wandering diction!

But I do know what syllables are, and I do know that their length has nothing to do with it ,and I do know that I used to say nuclear with two syllables, and so did everyone I knew, and I still read it with two syllables. So it has two freaking syllables. :p

I do not play a phonologist on TV, but I have spoken with many accents, most of them British

As for dipthongs -isn't that what strippers wear?

Is that overkill on the smileys?

[Perry Winkle]

Originally Posted by monster

Ah well, when you go making exceptions......


:p



Is that overkill on the smileys?

Rules wouldn't be rules without exceptions.

Yes, altogether too many smileys.

[monster]

just been reminded of:

septic and sceptic

"I'm a little septical about that" Oh really? It makes you all pus-filled?

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Or inflamed and irritated.

[Mixie]

I stumbled upon this particular thread through Google, and found that the subject is right up my alley. So much even, that I registered just because I wanted to contribute. Sad, I know.

Aside from many of the common irritations already mentioned, I feel obliged to add those that have been one of my major pet peeves: the 'would of', 'could of', and 'should of' combinations.

Someone already said in an earlier post that native English speaker don't have an excuse to mix words (I think it was in relation to you're/your), with which I wholeheartedly agree. But it frightens me that someone like me has a better grasp of the English language than people who have spoken it their entire lives.

I could go on for hours (or miles, measured in posts), but I'll end here. For now.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Welcome to the Cellar, Mixie.
Not sad at all, quite a common occurrence, actually.

But it frightens me that someone like me has a better grasp of the English language than people who have spoken it their entire lives.

Non-speakers have to learn all the weird rules that people growing up with it don't need to know how to communicate. That's the object, don't forget, not to be an English expert, but to communicate.

English is a very difficult language, with all it rules, exceptions and quirks.
I'm glad I speak American instead.

btw.... squirrel ....one syllable.

[Sundae]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

btw.... squirrel ....one syllable.

I thought of this thread watching children's tv last week. There was a reasonable cartoon called "Jane and the Dragon" and despite it having a Canadian/ Kiwi heritage it has a variety of accents, most of which appear to be an attempt at British.

Therefore it really jarred, halfway through when I heard the word, "Squirl" to mean squirrel. At least I knew what they meant I suppose...

[Kingswood]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

btw.... squirrel ....one syllable.

Only for in the US (and maybe Canada). Proper pronuniation elsewhere is SKWI-r*l. (First part sounds like "squid" without the d, and second sounds like "Errol" without the E.) This pronuniation is also used by some speakers in the USA. Both pronunciations are considered correct.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Kingswood

Only for in the US (and maybe Canada). Proper pronuniation elsewhere is SKWI-r*l. (First part sounds like "squid" without the d, and second sounds like "Errol" without the E.) This pronuniation is also used by some speakers in the USA. Both pronunciations are considered correct.

Nay, nay....common pronunciation maybe, but proper pronunciation is one syllable.

BTW, it's pronunciation not pronuniation. :p

[Kingswood]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Nay, nay....common pronunciation maybe, but proper pronunciation [of "squirrel"] is one syllable.

Only in the USA (and maybe Canada) as I said before. If you tried saying "squurl" in other anglophone countries, some people may give you funny looks, some may not understand you at all, and a few may try to correct you. "Squurl" is not considered a correct pronunciation in most other anglophone countries.

Your particular pronciation arises because the "irr" has been reinterpreted as a different vowel (the same vowel in bird, world, earth etc) and the schwa before the final "l" has been elided. These processes often occur in natural languages, and it is also natural that more conservative pronunciations are preserved in other places. This does not mean either pronunciation is incorrect. It just means that different pronunciations are recommended as correct in different countries.

Through these processes and by other means, a few words do have unpredictably different pronunciations in US English and Commonwealth English (the two major strains). Squirrel is one of those words. A few other words with such differences are aluminium/aluminum (this one is also spelt differently), lieutenant, stirrup, thorough, toward. Aluminium/aluminum is a relatively recent neologism, recommended US pronunciation is more conservative in lieutenant and thorough and recommended Commonwealth pronunciation is more conservative in squirrel, stirrup and toward.

Such differences in pronunciation in different countries are simply something that one must live with. After all, a few of your own treasured correct pronunciations may be considered incorrect by others, just as others' correct pronunciations may be considered incorrect by you.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

BTW, it's pronunciation not pronuniation. :p

Now, now. Surely you can tell a typo when you see one?

[monster]

Originally Posted by Kingswood

Only for in the US (and maybe Canada). Proper pronuniation elsewhere is SKWI-r*l. (First part sounds like "squid" without the d, and second sounds like "Errol" without the E.) This pronuniation is also used by some speakers in the USA. Both pronunciations are considered correct.

Didn't we already do this on page 12 -which is why SG was reminded of this thread?

But hey, let's do this American TV style and call it "another chance to discusss..."

/Damn now I'm annoyed, I know there's an upbeat euphemism for repeat -often used when showing the last episode in the previous series before they start a new one (or -all too often- the whole bloomin' previous series...), but I can't remember it. Aaargh. I knew I should watch more TV!

[Undertoad]

Thanks for stepping in Mix. We had a user whose tag line was "Should of been a cow girl" and it drove me straight up the wall. For extra credit, she stubbornly refused to correct it after it was pointed out as wrong.