Do You Own a Gun?

[Clodfobble]

If you really believe that, then you have no business trying to tell anyone that killing a criminal is wrong.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

If you really believe that, then you have no business trying to tell anyone that killing a criminal is wrong.

Why can't I want you to have the same subjective morals that I have? Join my team! Come on in - the water's fine!

BTW, I think there are times when killing a criminal is right. When you can save someone from immediate physical harm, it's ok. It's not ok to kill someone over "stuff", and it's preferrable to let our legal system work the way it is intended. If there's a problem with the system, fix it, don't become a vigilante. And Capital punishment is ok for the worst, and repeat offenders.

edit - bars and spotlights are better and safer than guns - kids don't accidently shoot each other with spotlights.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Why can't I want you to have the same subjective morals that I have?

WOW, there is a non-open minded thought if I have ever seen one.

Someone please call the morality police.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

WOW, there is a non-open minded thought if I have ever seen one.

Someone please call the morality police.

Wow, you're not even smart enough to realize that you do the same thing, pops.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Wow, you're not even smart enough to realize that you do the same thing, pops.

Oh, that makes it right. You truly are the King of the Double Standard Gang. I never said that anyone should adopt my morals on any issue, only about how I felt about an issue.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Wow, you're not even smart enough to realize that you do the same thing, pops.

My mistake. You don't want to convince people who don't have your morals, you just want to ridicule them. Phwew, for a minute I thought we had something in common, but no, your still just stupid and foolish.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

you just want to ridicule them. .... no, your still just stupid and foolish.

Wow.... there goes that double standard again! Somebody get me a fly swatter.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Why can't I want you to have the same subjective morals that I have? Join my team! Come on in - the water's fine!

Because that's an oxymoron. If morals are truly subjective, then you have to fully accept that mine are just as valid and correct as yours. We must both be right. If you're right and I'm wrong, then morals aren't completely subjective.

It's obvious that you have a sense of right and wrong. Morality is not subjective. Some things are always wrong, no matter how many people do them.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Because that's an oxymoron. If morals are truly subjective, then you have to fully accept that mine are just as valid and correct as yours. We must both be right. If you're right and I'm wrong, then morals aren't completely subjective.

It's obvious that you have a sense of right and wrong. Morality is not subjective. Some things are always wrong, no matter how many people do them.

Our individual morals don't have to be mutually exclusive, do they? Your morals are valid, in that they are what they are. We are both right, in our own opinion. Surely, morals can change. You don't feel the same way morally now as you did as a teenager, do you? If they can change, why can they change do to the influence of someone else?

Gotta log off for a while.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

My point is that I/we recognize that a person has the right to live because that's the way we were socialized. Not everybody thinks that way, which means there are not universal "rights", they differ by society. I think your example of the jungle people shows that. Ask them if the children have a right to live. Ask a Saudi if a thief has the right not to have his hand cut off for stealing. As soon as you understand that rights differ by society, you have to acknowledge that they are determined by society.

If that's your point, than you have no point. We do have universal, immutable, and undeniable rights and they are the same for all people regardless of what personal beliefs they have or what kind of culture or "society" they live in or were raised in. Some "societies" violate rights more than others, but that does not mean people don't have the universal and natural rights that are being violated.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

No, society determines what rights are taken away.

Society can't take away rights, it can just violate them.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Our individual morals don't have to be mutually exclusive, do they? Your morals are valid, in that they are what they are. We are both right, in our own opinion. Surely, morals can change. You don't feel the same way morally now as you did as a teenager, do you? If they can change, why can they change do to the influence of someone else?

Gotta log off for a while.

I'm sure if you ask a child molester whether he's doing something immoral, he'll say he's not. Hitler thought what he was doing was saving the world. The fact remains these people are insane and are sociopaths.

Yes, individuals may have different sets of morality. Some find merely being born gay to be immoral. Some find sex before marriage to be immoral.

Personal morality and government morality are entirely different things. Your personal morality does not grant you any authority to legislate your religious beliefs onto others. Government morality is merely here to ensure that we don't physically harm, endanger, or violate the person, property, or rights of non-consenting others.

Peter McWilliams does a fantastic job of describing this more eloquently than I'd ever be able to in his book "Ain't Nobody's Business If You Do".

The whole book is available to read online (though I recommend buying a copy). Here is the chapter in question...

http://mcwilliams.com/books/books/aint/104.htm

[Cloud]

I'd be afraid an attacker would simply take the gun away and shoot me with it.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

You don't feel the same way morally now as you did as a teenager, do you?

With regard to the slaughter of children, yes, I do. It is generally agreed that there are only a few natural rights, but they are the biggies. No one will ever convince me that I am wrong about them. If you believe that there are situations where it is not utterly wrong to slaughter innocent children for the purposes of tradition or societal convention, then yes, our moralities are definitely mutually exclusive.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Cloud

I'd be afraid an attacker would simply take the gun away and shoot me with it.

Not an uncommon or unfounded fear. You are one of the people who fall into the category of being one who should never own a gun. Just call 911 and hope for the best.