Perverting science for politics

[God]

Sorry for jumping in here late. Ronny Reagan sent me an e-mail on this. I've been completely focused on sending Bush a sign through Barney.


ANYWAY.......


This whole climate thing is my doing, yes. It's part of the deal. It's a cycle.

Sure, I know that the pro climate change people need a new tool for extracting money out of the western world and forcing them to "change their evil ways", but see this for what it is. A scam.

Ah shit, I gotta go. My firearm proximity alarm just went off for Cheney.

Just remember, I love you all and that you aren't nearly as smart as you all believe.

Hugs,

God

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by tw

snip~ How can you tell where science is fleeing to? Even in a science once dominated by Americans, advance physics must be done elsewhere. The fusion reactor (ITER) will probably be in Europe. CERN (France and Switzerland) will soon have a working Large Hadron Collider. And now an International Linear Collider is publicly proposed where? ~snip

So what? The findings that come out of these research projects will be published quickly. That's how these researchers get their woody, by being published and recognized by their peers. They don't expect the general public to understand, no less appreciate, what they discover.

Like many things the transistor was invented here. Hooray for us. But who made the most money and provided the most jobs from it? Sushi anyone?

[tw]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Like many things the transistor was invented here. Hooray for us. But who made the most money and provided the most jobs from it? Sushi anyone?

Because the transistor was invented here, also came most electronics jobs in ... America. For example, who made and mass produced the first semiconductor switch - ESS1? AT&T. Where was it first installed? Succasunna NJ. What made it possible? The transistor was developed in NJ. These switches were/are so massive - created so many jobs - that very few companies existed in the world to manufacturer them. AT&T, Siemens, Northern Telecom, Alcatel (?), and ... I forget the fifth ... Stromberg?

Also created was a massive electronics industry on Long Island that later moved to Silicon Valley, Texas, etc. Why did AT&T begin losing market share? Well, in part because they were only interested in telephony. Also in part because their chief innovator, Jack Morton, stifled development of the Integrated Circuit. So who got all the IC jobs? Where were all digital ICs and standard architectures for those ICs developed? CMOS ICs that is now standard in all computers were pioneered and manufacturered just down Route 22 in RCA, Somerville NJ. Just down the road from where the transistor was invented.

In the US, basic research resulted in whole new and massive industries. Jobs and wealth created because the transistor was invented here. So successful as a result that even a European inventor of the transistor (who was six months late) had to come to America to continue his innovations (which I believe then resulted in the early LEDs – again more American jobs).

When basic research goes elsewhere, well, who is the world leader in robots? Who is the world leader in automotive power systems? In each case, they do the basic research - therefore jobs and wealth follow.

So where do the jobs for quantum physics get created? Not in nations that spurn innovation?

Meanwhile America even graduates fewer innovators making America an importer of engineers - just like oil. That is the attitude of this administration that has also cut back significantly on basic research for life sciences. Either you go be an MBA, or go overseas to innovate.

But don't worry. Be happy. We were number one! That cheer is not heard in football stadiums.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Also created was a massive electronics industry on Long Island that later moved to Silicon Valley, Texas, etc.

And then it all went to Japan, Taiwan, Malaysia, China, etc. Seems they did quite well on our inventions, why couldn't we do well on theirs?

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Hee hee. Regnery Publishing, the single largest customer of Regnery Publishing, a reliable source. Amusing.

It's a sharp instrument for letting the flatus out of the Left's balloons, and its editions frequently are found on the best-seller list, even though it's a tiny little outfit.

HM, you'd have more brain than any other monkey no matter how cheerful were you to start reading their material, instead of that pooh-poohing monkey talk you indulge in when you have no real nor cogent rebuttal. Chatterchatterchatter, swing from tree branch, throw poo. Your ideology, sir, makes you very stupid, very absurd, whereas mine enlightens me from week to week if not day to day.

[Ibby]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

And then it all went to Japan, Taiwan, Malaysia, China, etc. Seems they did quite well on our inventions, why couldn't we do well on theirs?

Hey, don't diss the Taiwanese electronics industry - without it, how would I get my motherboard sent to the factory, fixed/replaced, and returned in a week?

[tw]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

And then it all went to Japan, Taiwan, Malaysia, China, etc. Seems they did quite well on our inventions, why couldn't we do well on theirs?

Yes as globalization does. They now make all the diodes, varistors, transistors, capacitors, and other commodities that have low profit and minimal technology. Meanwhile, when transistors were high tech, those jobs were created adjacent to where basic research discovered that technology.

Same applies to quantum physics. Where innovation occurs is where best jobs will appear. Of course, America can wait for those products to become commodities. Then we too will eventually have those jobs. That is what xoxoxoBruce is saying.

Who has best jobs making microprocessors? Same location where hafnium, strained silicon, and 45 nm transistors were implemented due to basic research. Best jobs created adjacent to the innovation. So where are all those profitable Taiwan microprocessors?

Bruce do you really believe they can do the research and we will then have the jobs? That is exactly what my MBA friends were telling me in the 1970s (even quoting from a magazine for MBAs called CEO). They waited for others to create new products - and then would clone those innovations. Therefore, their companies no longer exist. MBAs believe innovation costs too much. You are advocating the same mentality that destroyed their jobs.

The future lies in quantum physics. Where must such basic research go? It is leaving the US because somehow MBAs will instead create all the new jobs. That is the bottom line of what xoxoxoBruce has posted.

We exported the auto industry why? Because American innovation sat stifled for 20 years. We exported the tire industry because American tire manufaturers stifled the radial tire for 30 years. These are the lessons of history. Jobs (and new markets, wealth, strength, etc) go to where innovation occurs.

[xoxoxoBruce]

It seems the Oriental/South Asia industry was successful because they didn't stifle, but jumped on to new technology (regardless of patents and intellectual property rights?) quickly. Are you saying this is no longer possible or we can't compete in that type of market?

As an outsider to the whole electronics thing, what I saw was "we" spent a whole lot of time and money coming up with all this electronic gear only to have it vacate the US and make a bunch of money for others. But that's just a one consumer's perception. I'm sure there's much more to it... the inside poop, if you will.

I don't know, that's why I asked.

[richlevy]

On a side note, I notice a lot of people using Junkscience.com as a reference. I appreciate contrary views, so I am glad sites like this exist. I did notice one interesting thing. The site had a few links debating whether global warming should be taught in schools, I couldn't find any discussion of Creationism.

I haven't looked through all of the archives, but I would like to believe that they took a stand on the issue.

[Happy Monkey]

Isn't that the organization set up to defend corporations that make dangerous or unhealthy products? I don't think creationism is likely to come up.

[tw]

From ABC News of 10 Jul 2007:

Former Bush surgeon general says he was muzzled
The first U.S. surgeon general appointed by President George W. Bush accused the administration on Tuesday of political interference and muzzling him on key issues like embryonic stem cell research.

"Anything that doesn't fit into the political appointees' ideological, theological or political agenda is ignored, marginalized or simply buried," Dr. Richard Carmona, who served as the nation's top doctor from 2002 until 2006, told a House of Representatives committee.

The first U.S. surgeon general appointed by President George W. Bush accused the administration on Tuesday of political interference and muzzling him on key issues like embryonic stem cell research.

"Anything that doesn't fit into the political appointees' ideological, theological or political agenda is ignored, marginalized or simply buried," Dr. Richard Carmona, who served as the nation's top doctor from 2002 until 2006, told a House of Representatives committee.

Who here was denying that the White House lawyers routinely rewrote science reports? How many hundreds have to make this testimony before those few extremists acknowledge the closest thing we have to evil.

How much more anti-American was the George Jr administration? They will even pardon Libby for intentionally obstructing criminal investigations. After all. Nothing wrong with that when 800 people - the overwhelming majority innocent - are even tortured in Guantanamo.

What is the new symbol of America? Statue of Liberty or Abu Ghraid? Perverting Science for the Benefit of Politics? Situation normal to wacko extremists. After all, their political agenda is more important than the advancement of mankind. Screw the Surgeon General. Even keeping perscription drug prices high - stifling free market competition - is good for more campaign contributions. Science is not a big contributer to legalized bribery. (How many scientists have a brief case with $1million they can accidentally leave in the White House?)

Better is for science to be vetted by White House lawyers - just like any dicatorship where political officiers must approve everything. Coincidence or damning similarity?

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Tw, have you ever wanted democracy to actually win?

You aren't brave enough to answer this question.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Tw, have you ever wanted democracy to actually win?

You aren't brave enough to answer this question.

Urbane Guerrilla, have you ever wanted science and human knowledge to win?

This country was built on the freedom to innovate. Science and technology are part of that. Previous presidents have supported the advancement of human knowledge. Bush actively suppresses the advancement of human knowledge. Read all the examples in the 200+ posts in this thread. Bush hates science. After all, he's said that God talks to him. Why would you need science when God talks to you?

Your hatred of tw is consuming you to the point where you make no sense. Read the damn thread. What does it have to do with hating democracy? This is a thread about how Bush suppresses science. There are many examples. You can't argue against it. It's fact at this point.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Glatt, have you never noticed that hating democracy and speaking against its success and propagation throughout the world is a constant theme in tw's posts? I have. Here's just one more of his attempts to attack humanity's cause. It is execrable and it must not be endured, but avenged.

Frankly, the most that the Administration could do is to delay things a bit -- or else insist that if stem cell research is done, it will not be done on a Federal dime. This does not strike me as a huge thing, really.

Nor would I be in any hurry at all to say Bush hates technology -- because of the ones who are running up and down saying he does; these are people whose views I don't much trust -- on anything.

[Clodfobble]

So if I read that correctly, you're saying that the Administration does stifle science and innovation, but they're not any good at it so it's okay?